well this is much more of an ideological debate

but there are clearly a lot of alternative paths to follow between centre-left and a Stalinist model which basically disintegrated into a mish-mash of paranoid dictators.

Posted By: Mecagoenti on June 23rd 2016 at 14:16:18

Message Thread

I still haven't heard any valid reasons why the UK would be better off out of the EU (NCFC) - Larry Hagman, Jun 23, 13:05:10
- Farage said if we Brexit he can afford to go to the dentist (NCFC) - usacanary, Jun 23, 17:23:23
- there arent any. people dont like foreigners (NCFC) - IG88, Jun 23, 13:54:41
- No point arguing over it now. The vote will decide. (n/m) (NCFC) - Jim, Jun 23, 13:34:48
  - Has everyone voted yet? (n/m) (NCFC) - norway, Jun 23, 13:36:57
    - Nope. Going to make sure that I am the very last person at my polling station (NCFC) - Knitted Jesus, Jun 23, 13:41:27
- I know, you tell us every day (n/m) (NCFC) - Hulk Rules, Jun 23, 13:25:42
- It's not a numbers game, it's a question of who comes. Whether the UK (NCFC) - dennis moore, Jun 23, 13:22:25
  - yes, they would still want to trade with us (NCFC) - mr carra, Jun 23, 13:30:23
    - There is no EU-US trade deal at the moment. (NCFC) - Greeny, Jun 23, 13:44:53
  - "other EU countries would want to continue free trade" (NCFC) - Larry Hagman, Jun 23, 13:29:27
    - Well I think the Germans basically call the tune. I strongly their economic (NCFC) - dennis moore, Jun 23, 13:35:53
      - EU voting records show that Germany & UK are on the losing side most (n/m) (NCFC) - Larry Hagman, Jun 23, 13:50:36
      - There isn't a single EU trade deal with any bloc or country not involving taxes or tariffs (n/m) (NCFC) - South_West_Canary, Jun 23, 13:49:56
      - well they are the ones who would be most pissed off at us leaving (NCFC) - mr carra, Jun 23, 13:41:43
        
        No Germany don't have individual allies, it's what the EU is for (NCFC) - harry boulders, Jun 23, 13:48:45
        
        ??????? (n/m) (NCFC) - mr carra, Jun 23, 13:49:56
      - *strongly suspect* (n/m) (NCFC) - dennis moore, Jun 23, 13:38:25
- the first three paragraphs here make a pretty compelling case imo (NCFC) - Mecagoenti, Jun 23, 13:15:45
  - he talks a lot of sense until he starts babbling on about Tories and reveals (NCFC) - Jim, Jun 23, 13:38:21
  - The utters and xenophobes have ensured that leave will poll 40% plus (NCFC) - norway, Jun 23, 13:36:33
    - so you consider the best part of 14,000,000 people to be nutters and xenophobes? Talk abou (NCFC) - Jim, Jun 23, 13:41:45
      - judging a whole group of people by the abhorrant views of a small minority? (NCFC) - Ralf Scrampton, Jun 23, 13:58:04
        
        No I wouldn't (although suspect you are about to pull a post (NCFC) - Jim, Jun 23, 14:01:17
        
        i could, but it's better that we pull together Jim, prove that we're better than that (NCFC) - Ralf Scrampton, Jun 23, 14:13:38
        
        Except maybe Ipswich fans.... (n/m) (NCFC) - Jim, Jun 23, 14:04:23
      - No I don't consider 14m to be nutters and xenophobes (NCFC) - norway, Jun 23, 13:53:03
        
        Ok - sorry thats what it sounded like. I don't think its xenophobic or (NCFC) - Jim, Jun 23, 13:59:13
        
        No worries Jim. (n/m) (NCFC) - norway, Jun 23, 14:13:04
      - yes, because that would be impossible (NCFC) - mr carra, Jun 23, 13:48:40
        
        I do quite like the fact that... (NCFC) - mr carra, Jun 23, 14:35:55
      - Absolutely. The bien pensant right-on attitude of such people makes me really, (NCFC) - dennis moore, Jun 23, 13:46:57
        
        Which is absolutely what I haven't done - but do carry on. (n/m) (NCFC) - norway, Jun 23, 13:53:40
        
        You've just called 25% of the people who want out as such. (n/m) (NCFC) - dennis moore, Jun 23, 14:08:02
        
        No I haven't. Read my posts. Jim understood. Read my posts. (n/m) (NCFC) - norway, Jun 23, 14:12:43
        
        You said that without nutters & xenophobes leave would have polled (NCFC) - dennis moore, Jun 23, 14:42:46
        
        Pick the option which you like the most. (n/m) (NCFC) - norway, Jun 23, 14:51:59
        
        Irrelevant. I'm trying to understand what you're saying. (n/m) (NCFC) - dennis moore, Jun 23, 14:54:21
        
        Well, no. He hasn't. (n/m) (NCFC) - Yellalee, Jun 23, 14:12:14
        
        I must have misread the post then cause that what appeared to say . (n/m) (NCFC) - Men without hats, Jun 23, 17:26:40
      - the leaders are, not the voters (NCFC) - Mecagoenti, Jun 23, 13:45:00
    - yep, depressing isn't it? (n/m) (NCFC) - Mecagoenti, Jun 23, 13:38:30
  - here's his most recent column (NCFC) - Ralf Scrampton, Jun 23, 13:28:27
    - yep, basically more of the same argument (NCFC) - Mecagoenti, Jun 23, 13:35:58
  - well he explains some problems (NCFC) - mr carra, Jun 23, 13:27:03
    - His point is that the EU is not democratic and categorically does not serve (NCFC) - Mecagoenti, Jun 23, 13:33:46
      - well that's the point (NCFC) - mr carra, Jun 23, 13:39:47
        
        Not sure about that - the EU at its heart is a neo-liberal trading block (NCFC) - Mecagoenti, Jun 23, 13:43:22
        
        yes, it would (NCFC) - mr carra, Jun 23, 13:54:06
        
        don't agree with that (NCFC) - Mecagoenti, Jun 23, 13:58:21
        
        trouble is if the money isn't there that 'equality' just ends up as 'everybody poor' (NCFC) - mr carra, Jun 23, 14:10:07
        
        well this is much more of an ideological debate (NCFC) - Mecagoenti, Jun 23, 14:16:18
        
        well of course there are (NCFC) - mr carra, Jun 23, 14:24:54
        
        agreed, but then the question is whether it is easier (NCFC) - Mecagoenti, Jun 23, 14:33:51
        
        clearly won't happen overnight (NCFC) - mr carra, Jun 23, 14:41:26
      - It would also perhaps to be fair to say that his views are identical to Johnson and Gove (NCFC) - norway, Jun 23, 13:35:30
        
        well yes, his views are similar in that one respect (NCFC) - Mecagoenti, Jun 23, 13:38:07
        
        well no, actually it is for exactly the same reason (NCFC) - mr carra, Jun 23, 14:04:09
        
        that doesn't make sense (NCFC) - Mecagoenti, Jun 23, 14:11:59
        
        it's the same reason - they dislike it because it is overwelmingly centrist (NCFC) - mr carra, Jun 23, 14:18:48
        
        Paul Mason is an interesting guy though (NCFC) - norway, Jun 23, 13:49:36
        
        yeah, he's certainly got non-mainstream views for the UK at this present time (NCFC) - Mecagoenti, Jun 23, 14:01:28
  - why hasn't he replaced the British government yet? (n/m) (NCFC) - Ralf Scrampton, Jun 23, 13:25:50
- TAKING BACK CONTYRO (n/m) (NCFC) - norway, Jun 23, 13:09:32
  - CONTROL AS WELL (n/m) (NCFC) - norway, Jun 23, 13:09:46
    - Control of what? (NCFC) - Larry Hagman, Jun 23, 13:11:48
      - PUTTING THE GREAT BACK IN TO BRITAIN (n/m) (NCFC) - norway, Jun 23, 13:35:45
        
        TAKE BACK ARE CUNTRY! (n/m) (NCFC) - Steve in Holland, Jun 23, 14:47:49
        
        BriGreattian? (n/m) (NCFC) - Ralf Scrampton, Jun 23, 13:50:34
      - I'm not sure the veto cannot be circumvented? Isn't there something about (NCFC) - dennis moore, Jun 23, 13:26:46
        
        QMV is used for most things, as you'd expect (NCFC) - mr carra, Jun 23, 13:34:47
        
        Is this like the Hose of Lords not voting against the Commons on (NCFC) - dennis moore, Jun 23, 13:41:44

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