Simpler example..
Somebody I know very well. He is a lorry driver and really not the rabid right-wing racist or xenophobe. He lives in a decent area, has a family and makes ends meet comfortably. However, he voted Leave and still feels very strongly about it.
When I finally did pin him down to the effect he thought it would have on him personally, his answer was that his salary would increase significantly because he would no longer be in competition with "cheaper foreign lorry drivers".
So I asked him - if you believe that following Brexit all or the majority of the foreign drivers will have to or choose to leave Britain, when the owner of your company is faced with being able to employ only 35 drivers for his 1m wage budget rather than the 40 he currently has, what do you think his most likely short term reaction would be?
a) increase the salary of those remaining 35 because his wage budget would stay the same, and he now had room to reward employees purely for being British, despite a reducing in his turnover due to being 5 FTE short ?
b) Stay at the same head count and turnover, and increase his wage budget to reward you for being British, accepting the reduction in his profit and the increased risk of going out of business with those jobs disappearing entirely ?
c) Freeze existing salaries and lower salaries for new drivers because he is no longer able to fill the gap with a few "cheaper foreign drivers" without reducing his profit?
or even
d) If c) was successful, do you think he might not continue to replace the higher paid Brits over time with this new pool of employees who would accept a lower wage, thereby increasing his profit and forcing down he average salary for British lorry drivers ?
All conjecture of course, but it certainly encouraged a bit more of a genuine, less emotional discussion about the impact than if we were discussing at the levels of WTO vs Norway vs Switzerland vs Remain.
Posted By: Steve in Holland on March 23rd 2019 at 14:48:13
Message Thread
- Best arguments for Leave (Betting) - Old Man, Mar 23, 10:42:18
- Fairer access to UK markets for developing nations (Betting) - CWC, Mar 23, 15:42:34
- well... (Betting) - Ralf Scrampton, Mar 23, 22:15:37
- Ah fucksticks, wish I'd known that 3 years ago (Betting) - CWC, Mar 24, 11:26:32
- well... (Betting) - Ralf Scrampton, Mar 23, 22:15:37
- Oh hang on. I've found one (Betting) - Steve in Holland, Mar 23, 14:00:13
- I would like to see the Brexit discussion simplified to the point of (Betting) - Steve in Holland, Mar 23, 13:55:31
- Precisely why a referendum was a catastrophically bad idea. You want to know what effect (Betting) - Higher Wrather, Mar 23, 14:08:43
- it needs them to be able to think beyond the immediate and obvious (Betting) - Ralf Scrampton, Mar 23, 14:17:18
- Or how being part of a federal europe (Betting) - paulg, Mar 23, 15:00:15
- Paulg, why would that even play a part in the discussion right now? It is not currently (Betting) - Steve in Holland, Mar 23, 15:10:24
- as the law stands there would have to be a referendum for a change that big (Betting) - Ralf Scrampton, Mar 23, 17:53:56
- Paulg, why would that even play a part in the discussion right now? It is not currently (Betting) - Steve in Holland, Mar 23, 15:10:24
- Simpler example.. (Betting) - Steve in Holland, Mar 23, 14:48:13
- Or how being part of a federal europe (Betting) - paulg, Mar 23, 15:00:15
- it needs them to be able to think beyond the immediate and obvious (Betting) - Ralf Scrampton, Mar 23, 14:17:18
- Precisely why a referendum was a catastrophically bad idea. You want to know what effect (Betting) - Higher Wrather, Mar 23, 14:08:43
- There are other reasons. There's the EU (basically Germany and France) treatment of Greece (Betting) - Higher Wrather, Mar 23, 13:15:19
- That's the David Owen argument (Betting) - biffbro, Mar 23, 17:42:45
- We are/were one of those stronger nations (Betting) - CWC, Mar 23, 16:12:29
- I see that as a subset of the federal europe/ sovereignty argument (n/m) (Betting) - paulg, Mar 23, 13:36:05
- a disaster like EUFOR you mean? (Betting) - Tombs, Mar 23, 13:35:01
- I imagine it becoming like the UN - well meant but pointless. But I know that I don't know (Betting) - Higher Wrather, Mar 23, 13:57:34
- I don't think it would (Betting) - Tombs, Mar 23, 15:12:00
- I imagine it becoming like the UN - well meant but pointless. But I know that I don't know (Betting) - Higher Wrather, Mar 23, 13:57:34
- don't believe all you've been told about an EU army (Betting) - Ralf Scrampton, Mar 23, 13:33:17
- Coming in here with your reasoned debate! Outrageous behaviour 👍 (n/m) (Betting) - Worthing Yellow, Mar 23, 12:55:01
- Good well reasoned post (Betting) - Tressells Broadbrush, Mar 23, 12:38:58
- PS re tax havens I absolutely share your suspicions (n/m) (Betting) - Old Man, Mar 23, 12:59:08
- On the sclerosis (Betting) - Old Man, Mar 23, 12:51:15
- If anything (Betting) - paulg, Mar 23, 12:19:21
- I agree re federalism (Betting) - Old Man, Mar 23, 12:34:21
- To some extent (Betting) - paulg, Mar 23, 13:09:35
- although that argument against the Euro is a bit overblown imo (Betting) - Ralf Scrampton, Mar 23, 12:50:13
- I don't think it's overblown (Betting) - paulg, Mar 23, 13:02:26
- what's that claim based on? (Betting) - Ralf Scrampton, Mar 23, 13:24:12
- Greece is now one of the best economic performers in the Eurozone according to the IMF (n/m) (Betting) - Steve in Holland, Mar 23, 13:04:56
- Any growth in Greece is a bubble (Betting) - Mecagoenti, Mar 23, 14:27:55
- BT is part owned by Deutsche Telekom. Associated British Ports is foreign-owned. BP is (Betting) - Steve in Holland, Mar 23, 15:29:08
- No, it's not different in many respects (Betting) - Mecagoenti, Mar 23, 16:02:49
- BT is part owned by Deutsche Telekom. Associated British Ports is foreign-owned. BP is (Betting) - Steve in Holland, Mar 23, 15:29:08
- Any growth in Greece is a bubble (Betting) - Mecagoenti, Mar 23, 14:27:55
- Yeah this is fair (Betting) - Old Man, Mar 23, 12:54:23
- I don't think it's overblown (Betting) - paulg, Mar 23, 13:02:26
- I agree re federalism (Betting) - Old Man, Mar 23, 12:34:21
- There is the left wing argument as well (Betting) - Mecagoenti, Mar 23, 11:07:22
- The former is absolutely true (Betting) - Old Man, Mar 23, 11:19:28
- Completely agree, that EU policies have definitely (Betting) - Mecagoenti, Mar 23, 11:41:49
- Second para made no sense, try again (Betting) - Old Man, Mar 23, 11:22:02
- The former is absolutely true (Betting) - Old Man, Mar 23, 11:19:28
- If I was a leaver (Betting) - CauldRon, Mar 23, 10:54:29
- I am a leaver and you are 100% correct on this. The level of incompetence (Betting) - Basingstoke_Canary, Mar 23, 13:42:54
- Fairer access to UK markets for developing nations (Betting) - CWC, Mar 23, 15:42:34
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