There are other reasons. There's the EU (basically Germany and France) treatment of Greece

, which was a telling display of where the power lies and how it will be used to keep the weaker nations in their place. The powerful member states want weaker States within the common market, so that they can exploit the lower wages.

Following on from that is the question of whether that is sustainable, because it will lead to tensions between member states. There are already a number of very right wing nationalist governments in the EU, and I see that as a major issue in the future.

Then there are the wilder integrationist schemes like an EU army. What a disaster that would be. That seems to be a French idea, with the Germans not so keen, so hopefully it will never happen.

Posted By: Higher Wrather on March 23rd 2019 at 13:15:19

Message Thread

Best arguments for Leave (Betting) - Old Man, Mar 23, 10:42:18
- Fairer access to UK markets for developing nations (Betting) - CWC, Mar 23, 15:42:34
  - well... (Betting) - Ralf Scrampton, Mar 23, 22:15:37
    - Ah fucksticks, wish I'd known that 3 years ago (Betting) - CWC, Mar 24, 11:26:32
- Oh hang on. I've found one (Betting) - Steve in Holland, Mar 23, 14:00:13
- I would like to see the Brexit discussion simplified to the point of (Betting) - Steve in Holland, Mar 23, 13:55:31
  - Precisely why a referendum was a catastrophically bad idea. You want to know what effect (Betting) - Higher Wrather, Mar 23, 14:08:43
    - it needs them to be able to think beyond the immediate and obvious (Betting) - Ralf Scrampton, Mar 23, 14:17:18
      - Or how being part of a federal europe (Betting) - paulg, Mar 23, 15:00:15
        
        Paulg, why would that even play a part in the discussion right now? It is not currently (Betting) - Steve in Holland, Mar 23, 15:10:24
        
        as the law stands there would have to be a referendum for a change that big (Betting) - Ralf Scrampton, Mar 23, 17:53:56
      - Simpler example.. (Betting) - Steve in Holland, Mar 23, 14:48:13
- There are other reasons. There's the EU (basically Germany and France) treatment of Greece (Betting) - Higher Wrather, Mar 23, 13:15:19
  - That's the David Owen argument (Betting) - biffbro, Mar 23, 17:42:45
  - We are/were one of those stronger nations (Betting) - CWC, Mar 23, 16:12:29
  - I see that as a subset of the federal europe/ sovereignty argument (n/m) (Betting) - paulg, Mar 23, 13:36:05
  - a disaster like EUFOR you mean? (Betting) - Tombs, Mar 23, 13:35:01
    - I imagine it becoming like the UN - well meant but pointless. But I know that I don't know (Betting) - Higher Wrather, Mar 23, 13:57:34
      - I don't think it would (Betting) - Tombs, Mar 23, 15:12:00
  - don't believe all you've been told about an EU army (Betting) - Ralf Scrampton, Mar 23, 13:33:17
- Coming in here with your reasoned debate! Outrageous behaviour 👍 (n/m) (Betting) - Worthing Yellow, Mar 23, 12:55:01
- Good well reasoned post (Betting) - Tressells Broadbrush, Mar 23, 12:38:58
  - PS re tax havens I absolutely share your suspicions (n/m) (Betting) - Old Man, Mar 23, 12:59:08
  - On the sclerosis (Betting) - Old Man, Mar 23, 12:51:15
- If anything (Betting) - paulg, Mar 23, 12:19:21
  - I agree re federalism (Betting) - Old Man, Mar 23, 12:34:21
    - To some extent (Betting) - paulg, Mar 23, 13:09:35
    - although that argument against the Euro is a bit overblown imo (Betting) - Ralf Scrampton, Mar 23, 12:50:13
      - I don't think it's overblown (Betting) - paulg, Mar 23, 13:02:26
        
        what's that claim based on? (Betting) - Ralf Scrampton, Mar 23, 13:24:12
        
        Greece is now one of the best economic performers in the Eurozone according to the IMF (n/m) (Betting) - Steve in Holland, Mar 23, 13:04:56
        
        Any growth in Greece is a bubble (Betting) - Mecagoenti, Mar 23, 14:27:55
        
        BT is part owned by Deutsche Telekom. Associated British Ports is foreign-owned. BP is (Betting) - Steve in Holland, Mar 23, 15:29:08
        
        No, it's not different in many respects (Betting) - Mecagoenti, Mar 23, 16:02:49
      - Yeah this is fair (Betting) - Old Man, Mar 23, 12:54:23
- There is the left wing argument as well (Betting) - Mecagoenti, Mar 23, 11:07:22
  - The former is absolutely true (Betting) - Old Man, Mar 23, 11:19:28
    - Completely agree, that EU policies have definitely (Betting) - Mecagoenti, Mar 23, 11:41:49
    - Second para made no sense, try again (Betting) - Old Man, Mar 23, 11:22:02
- If I was a leaver (Betting) - CauldRon, Mar 23, 10:54:29
  - I am a leaver and you are 100% correct on this. The level of incompetence (Betting) - Basingstoke_Canary, Mar 23, 13:42:54

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