To some extent

It depends on whether you care more about the system or the current experience/outcome. To some, the fact that the EU as a system appears undemocratic etc matters because it feels hazardous to be a part of that - difficult to predict where it will take you against your will. To others, that sounds other worldly and academic, in circumstances where their current position is quite comfortable.
Would you prefer to be well looked after but imprisoned or at large but at risk!!

Posted By: paulg on March 23rd 2019 at 13:09:35

Message Thread

Best arguments for Leave (Betting) - Old Man, Mar 23, 10:42:18
- Fairer access to UK markets for developing nations (Betting) - CWC, Mar 23, 15:42:34
  - well... (Betting) - Ralf Scrampton, Mar 23, 22:15:37
    - Ah fucksticks, wish I'd known that 3 years ago (Betting) - CWC, Mar 24, 11:26:32
- Oh hang on. I've found one (Betting) - Steve in Holland, Mar 23, 14:00:13
- I would like to see the Brexit discussion simplified to the point of (Betting) - Steve in Holland, Mar 23, 13:55:31
  - Precisely why a referendum was a catastrophically bad idea. You want to know what effect (Betting) - Higher Wrather, Mar 23, 14:08:43
    - it needs them to be able to think beyond the immediate and obvious (Betting) - Ralf Scrampton, Mar 23, 14:17:18
      - Or how being part of a federal europe (Betting) - paulg, Mar 23, 15:00:15
        
        Paulg, why would that even play a part in the discussion right now? It is not currently (Betting) - Steve in Holland, Mar 23, 15:10:24
        
        as the law stands there would have to be a referendum for a change that big (Betting) - Ralf Scrampton, Mar 23, 17:53:56
      - Simpler example.. (Betting) - Steve in Holland, Mar 23, 14:48:13
- There are other reasons. There's the EU (basically Germany and France) treatment of Greece (Betting) - Higher Wrather, Mar 23, 13:15:19
  - That's the David Owen argument (Betting) - biffbro, Mar 23, 17:42:45
  - We are/were one of those stronger nations (Betting) - CWC, Mar 23, 16:12:29
  - I see that as a subset of the federal europe/ sovereignty argument (n/m) (Betting) - paulg, Mar 23, 13:36:05
  - a disaster like EUFOR you mean? (Betting) - Tombs, Mar 23, 13:35:01
    - I imagine it becoming like the UN - well meant but pointless. But I know that I don't know (Betting) - Higher Wrather, Mar 23, 13:57:34
      - I don't think it would (Betting) - Tombs, Mar 23, 15:12:00
  - don't believe all you've been told about an EU army (Betting) - Ralf Scrampton, Mar 23, 13:33:17
- Coming in here with your reasoned debate! Outrageous behaviour 👍 (n/m) (Betting) - Worthing Yellow, Mar 23, 12:55:01
- Good well reasoned post (Betting) - Tressells Broadbrush, Mar 23, 12:38:58
  - PS re tax havens I absolutely share your suspicions (n/m) (Betting) - Old Man, Mar 23, 12:59:08
  - On the sclerosis (Betting) - Old Man, Mar 23, 12:51:15
- If anything (Betting) - paulg, Mar 23, 12:19:21
  - I agree re federalism (Betting) - Old Man, Mar 23, 12:34:21
    - To some extent (Betting) - paulg, Mar 23, 13:09:35
    - although that argument against the Euro is a bit overblown imo (Betting) - Ralf Scrampton, Mar 23, 12:50:13
      - I don't think it's overblown (Betting) - paulg, Mar 23, 13:02:26
        
        what's that claim based on? (Betting) - Ralf Scrampton, Mar 23, 13:24:12
        
        Greece is now one of the best economic performers in the Eurozone according to the IMF (n/m) (Betting) - Steve in Holland, Mar 23, 13:04:56
        
        Any growth in Greece is a bubble (Betting) - Mecagoenti, Mar 23, 14:27:55
        
        BT is part owned by Deutsche Telekom. Associated British Ports is foreign-owned. BP is (Betting) - Steve in Holland, Mar 23, 15:29:08
        
        No, it's not different in many respects (Betting) - Mecagoenti, Mar 23, 16:02:49
      - Yeah this is fair (Betting) - Old Man, Mar 23, 12:54:23
- There is the left wing argument as well (Betting) - Mecagoenti, Mar 23, 11:07:22
  - The former is absolutely true (Betting) - Old Man, Mar 23, 11:19:28
    - Completely agree, that EU policies have definitely (Betting) - Mecagoenti, Mar 23, 11:41:49
    - Second para made no sense, try again (Betting) - Old Man, Mar 23, 11:22:02
- If I was a leaver (Betting) - CauldRon, Mar 23, 10:54:29
  - I am a leaver and you are 100% correct on this. The level of incompetence (Betting) - Basingstoke_Canary, Mar 23, 13:42:54

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