I would like to see the Brexit discussion simplified to the point of

"What direct effect will it have on me and my immediate family" ?

I think asking the electorate to vote on such a big change at a level the last majority could not possibly understand the impacts of, even if they'd actually been provided with any risk / opportunity assessment beforehand, has had the effect of keeping the discussion at that level - a discussion which can never be resolved since few are able to articulate any demonstrable argument for or against.

Posted By: Steve in Holland on March 23rd 2019 at 13:55:31

Message Thread

Best arguments for Leave (Betting) - Old Man, Mar 23, 10:42:18
- Fairer access to UK markets for developing nations (Betting) - CWC, Mar 23, 15:42:34
  - well... (Betting) - Ralf Scrampton, Mar 23, 22:15:37
    - Ah fucksticks, wish I'd known that 3 years ago (Betting) - CWC, Mar 24, 11:26:32
- Oh hang on. I've found one (Betting) - Steve in Holland, Mar 23, 14:00:13
- I would like to see the Brexit discussion simplified to the point of (Betting) - Steve in Holland, Mar 23, 13:55:31
  - Precisely why a referendum was a catastrophically bad idea. You want to know what effect (Betting) - Higher Wrather, Mar 23, 14:08:43
    - it needs them to be able to think beyond the immediate and obvious (Betting) - Ralf Scrampton, Mar 23, 14:17:18
      - Or how being part of a federal europe (Betting) - paulg, Mar 23, 15:00:15
        
        Paulg, why would that even play a part in the discussion right now? It is not currently (Betting) - Steve in Holland, Mar 23, 15:10:24
        
        as the law stands there would have to be a referendum for a change that big (Betting) - Ralf Scrampton, Mar 23, 17:53:56
      - Simpler example.. (Betting) - Steve in Holland, Mar 23, 14:48:13
- There are other reasons. There's the EU (basically Germany and France) treatment of Greece (Betting) - Higher Wrather, Mar 23, 13:15:19
  - That's the David Owen argument (Betting) - biffbro, Mar 23, 17:42:45
  - We are/were one of those stronger nations (Betting) - CWC, Mar 23, 16:12:29
  - I see that as a subset of the federal europe/ sovereignty argument (n/m) (Betting) - paulg, Mar 23, 13:36:05
  - a disaster like EUFOR you mean? (Betting) - Tombs, Mar 23, 13:35:01
    - I imagine it becoming like the UN - well meant but pointless. But I know that I don't know (Betting) - Higher Wrather, Mar 23, 13:57:34
      - I don't think it would (Betting) - Tombs, Mar 23, 15:12:00
  - don't believe all you've been told about an EU army (Betting) - Ralf Scrampton, Mar 23, 13:33:17
- Coming in here with your reasoned debate! Outrageous behaviour 👍 (n/m) (Betting) - Worthing Yellow, Mar 23, 12:55:01
- Good well reasoned post (Betting) - Tressells Broadbrush, Mar 23, 12:38:58
  - PS re tax havens I absolutely share your suspicions (n/m) (Betting) - Old Man, Mar 23, 12:59:08
  - On the sclerosis (Betting) - Old Man, Mar 23, 12:51:15
- If anything (Betting) - paulg, Mar 23, 12:19:21
  - I agree re federalism (Betting) - Old Man, Mar 23, 12:34:21
    - To some extent (Betting) - paulg, Mar 23, 13:09:35
    - although that argument against the Euro is a bit overblown imo (Betting) - Ralf Scrampton, Mar 23, 12:50:13
      - I don't think it's overblown (Betting) - paulg, Mar 23, 13:02:26
        
        what's that claim based on? (Betting) - Ralf Scrampton, Mar 23, 13:24:12
        
        Greece is now one of the best economic performers in the Eurozone according to the IMF (n/m) (Betting) - Steve in Holland, Mar 23, 13:04:56
        
        Any growth in Greece is a bubble (Betting) - Mecagoenti, Mar 23, 14:27:55
        
        BT is part owned by Deutsche Telekom. Associated British Ports is foreign-owned. BP is (Betting) - Steve in Holland, Mar 23, 15:29:08
        
        No, it's not different in many respects (Betting) - Mecagoenti, Mar 23, 16:02:49
      - Yeah this is fair (Betting) - Old Man, Mar 23, 12:54:23
- There is the left wing argument as well (Betting) - Mecagoenti, Mar 23, 11:07:22
  - The former is absolutely true (Betting) - Old Man, Mar 23, 11:19:28
    - Completely agree, that EU policies have definitely (Betting) - Mecagoenti, Mar 23, 11:41:49
    - Second para made no sense, try again (Betting) - Old Man, Mar 23, 11:22:02
- If I was a leaver (Betting) - CauldRon, Mar 23, 10:54:29
  - I am a leaver and you are 100% correct on this. The level of incompetence (Betting) - Basingstoke_Canary, Mar 23, 13:42:54

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