Yeah, USAC is right when he says it's easy to see whether a club is over/under performing

But it's harder to see what the driver of that over / under performance is in isolation of the other factors.

Farke was sacked for under performing when he probably wasn't given how poor our squad was.

Harder to dissect whether Wagner or Smith under performed, although surely the latter did given we had parachute payments?

Possibly under performance is more obvious in the case of JHT given he didn't seem to be able to motivate the squad and performances were getting steadily worse.

But yes, you've got a point if your point is how do you objectively measure the performance of the manager in isolation given the number of other variables that have a massive impact on his success.

Posted By: SimonOTBC on June 10th 2025 at 14:00:24

Message Thread

Knapper kept mentioning 'and the need to over perform' (NCFC) - seminated_woolly, Jun 10, 09:34:17
- LM is a decent coach, Ben was just showing confidence in Manning.. (n/m) (NCFC) - Goosebumps, Jun 10, 11:53:13
- Bristol did much better last term than analysis of their squad would suggest as par (NCFC) - Old Man, Jun 10, 10:56:07
- Define “over-perform” (NCFC) - APB, Jun 10, 10:44:23
  - Id be incredibly concerned if over-perform was just management speak (NCFC) - seminated_woolly, Jun 10, 13:35:47
  - Further to that, I think I noticed Manning referring to “good characters”… (NCFC) - APB, Jun 10, 11:23:14
    - Bit of a word salad there but you know what I mean (n/m) (NCFC) - APB, Jun 10, 11:28:32
      - ChatGPT says you meant this (NCFC) - Old Git, Jun 10, 12:34:35
        
        Ha ha. Pretty much. (n/m) (NCFC) - APB, Jun 10, 12:42:54
      - I read this as (NCFC) - camcan, Jun 10, 11:45:13
        
        That’s clever man management (n/m) (NCFC) - APB, Jun 10, 12:25:37
        
        Seriously though, it is like a classroom. (NCFC) - APB, Jun 10, 12:39:27
        
        TL;DR - you need leaders, but everyone needs to be a bit of a leader (n/m) (NCFC) - APB, Jun 10, 12:41:49
        
        I really think the Shane Duffy being dropped moment (NCFC) - camcan, Jun 10, 13:19:39
        
        It should never have got to that point (n/m) (NCFC) - APB, Jun 10, 13:22:53
  - Me,in the sack (n/m) (NCFC) - Augustus Pablo, Jun 10, 11:19:05
    - With the lead piping? (n/m) (NCFC) - APB, Jun 10, 11:23:32
      - The candelabra (n/m) (NCFC) - Augustus Pablo, Jun 10, 11:31:25
        
        Saw them twice at the Brixton Academy in 87. The Bassist exploded during the sound check. (n/m) (NCFC) - Milko, Jun 10, 12:17:47
        
        ^ has a frilly willy (n/m) (NCFC) - jamesward, Jun 10, 11:35:02
  - £££££££ (NCFC) - SimonOTBC, Jun 10, 11:02:18
    - This .... (NCFC) - usacanary, Jun 10, 12:08:40
  - 100 this. Even if you could quantify 'over perform' it is statistically impossible as (NCFC) - The Gaffer, Jun 10, 11:01:49
    - I don't think that's true; we know what everyone's budget is (NCFC) - SimonOTBC, Jun 10, 11:02:53
      - That's if you believe there is a perfect correlation between budget and performance and (NCFC) - The Gaffer, Jun 10, 11:16:04
        
        It's easy to say if the club is... (NCFC) - usacanary, Jun 10, 12:21:41
        
        Yes, and it's budget that dictates what that long term mean is (NCFC) - SimonOTBC, Jun 10, 11:25:43
  - It's twaddle speak. Like giving 110% (NCFC) - camcan, Jun 10, 10:50:52
    - If it is twaddle speak then Knapper is truly out of his depth (NCFC) - seminated_woolly, Jun 10, 13:36:20
      - I think what we mean is that over-perform or out-perform (NCFC) - APB, Jun 10, 15:32:03
    - I don't agree. (NCFC) - usacanary, Jun 10, 12:29:39
      - You’re obsessed with data and numbers, which I understand (NCFC) - APB, Jun 10, 12:55:53
        
        You kind of made my point. (NCFC) - usacanary, Jun 10, 21:12:56
        
        all true APB (NCFC) - dr fanta, Jun 10, 14:56:52
    - indeed it is (NCFC) - dr fanta, Jun 10, 12:02:13
    - I like “pre-order” (NCFC) - APB, Jun 10, 10:53:00
- It’s language used by Atanasio. He kept saying that about the Brewers (n/m) (NCFC) - Tony Martin, Jun 10, 10:41:08
  - It's pretty simple isn't it? (NCFC) - mr carra, Jun 10, 11:39:32
    - Yes, that's exactly the metric he is using. (NCFC) - usacanary, Jun 10, 12:31:46
    - Yep (n/m) (NCFC) - SimonOTBC, Jun 10, 12:02:09
- Whenever we do well we have a team that is better than the sum of its parts (NCFC) - Knitted Jesus, Jun 10, 09:56:57
  - Agree totally (except Alex Neil's team) (NCFC) - seminated_woolly, Jun 10, 10:18:21
    - If we don't outperform, then either him or Knapper will go (NCFC) - CWC, Jun 10, 12:45:18
- If we don't out perform our budget, we aren't getting promoted (NCFC) - SimonOTBC, Jun 10, 09:44:58
  - 1 and 2 underrated , 3 overrated. (NCFC) - usacanary, Jun 10, 12:53:15
    - I'd say Alex Neil vs Neil Adams is the obvious argument against your view on coaching (NCFC) - SimonOTBC, Jun 10, 13:13:22
      - No that kind of enhances my view. (NCFC) - usacanary, Jun 10, 21:38:44
  - And I don't disagree with any of that (NCFC) - seminated_woolly, Jun 10, 10:17:25
    - No, not necessarily (NCFC) - SimonOTBC, Jun 10, 10:28:35
      - That's the question though. What are the metrics to measure this 'over-performing' (NCFC) - seminated_woolly, Jun 10, 13:38:04
        
        Yeah, USAC is right when he says it's easy to see whether a club is over/under performing (NCFC) - SimonOTBC, Jun 10, 14:00:24
    - Depends how badly he does (NCFC) - jamesward, Jun 10, 10:20:22
      - I think there is def a scenario where he finishes... (NCFC) - usacanary, Jun 10, 12:57:23
  - It’s all 3 isn’t it and an efficient player trading model (n/m) (NCFC) - loz, Jun 10, 09:47:09
    - Yes - I think it is. Certainly if we think back to promotions under Lambert and Farke (NCFC) - SimonOTBC, Jun 10, 09:51:38
      - That's just not true. (NCFC) - usacanary, Jun 10, 12:48:49
        
        Net spend on transfers? (NCFC) - SimonOTBC, Jun 10, 13:05:49
- Took it to mean over perform when… (NCFC) - loz, Jun 10, 09:43:17
  - Yup,.I'm sure that's what he meant (NCFC) - seminated_woolly, Jun 10, 10:19:13
- Wonder when Knapper himself will over perform … (n/m) (NCFC) - footymadman, Jun 10, 09:40:12

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