Definition is difficult.

I don't think there is a line to be drawn between 'being racist' and 'saying racist things'. Racism is a culture not an inherent characteristic.

And I think it is often the excuse/denial that people try and hide behind to absolve themselves or others of any blame.

So however Vaughan meant it, it was wrong - and yet he could also have made a genuinely valuable contribution to the discussion if he had not decided that outright accusations of lying was his best course of action.

Posted By: norwaay on November 16th 2021 at 11:19:35

Message Thread

Azeem Rafiq is a very impressive speaker, some harrowing evidence. (n/m) (Other Sports) - DrDublin, Nov 16, 09:58:48
- A hard watch (n/m) (Other Sports) - revsimon, Nov 16, 12:36:55
- Brave to speak out. Hope he can help others as a result. (n/m) (Other Sports) - NorskyNormann, Nov 16, 11:23:15
- Rafiq has walked Joe Root to the cliff edge and stopped just short of pushing him off. (n/m) (Other Sports) - norwaay, Nov 16, 10:18:54
  - For a game that is all about ‘detail’… (Other Sports) - Munich93, Nov 16, 10:46:06
  - Going in two-footed on Vaughan (n/m) (Other Sports) - jamesward, Nov 16, 10:21:46
    - Vaughan’s ‘Andy Gray’ moment (Other Sports) - Munich93, Nov 16, 11:17:29
      - … and trolling (n/m) (Other Sports) - NorskyNormann, Nov 16, 12:29:19
        
        Wow. Introducing bullying to this of all posts (n/m) (Other Sports) - Munich93, Nov 16, 12:32:10
    - And he's absolutely right about Vaughan's response. (Other Sports) - norwaay, Nov 16, 10:24:31
      - unfortunately Vaughan is a massive cunt (n/m) (Other Sports) - big member, Nov 16, 10:36:04
      - It would look a bit like an admission of guilt though (n/m) (Other Sports) - SCC 28, Nov 16, 10:27:13
        
        "No recollection" is not an admission of guilt though (Other Sports) - norwaay, Nov 16, 10:31:31
        
        Yep (Other Sports) - SCC 28, Nov 16, 10:36:00
        
        Possibly - but also worth remembering that Vaughan has stirred this all up (Other Sports) - norwaay, Nov 16, 10:39:53
        
        He’s also not helped himself with prior Twitter comments (Other Sports) - CWC, Nov 16, 10:45:02
        
        Didn't Rashid come out the day before? (Other Sports) - jamesward, Nov 16, 10:38:37
        
        Vaughan doubled down in another statement after Rashid became the third. (n/m) (Other Sports) - norwaay, Nov 16, 10:41:17
        
        Yeah just seen there was another statement yesterday (Other Sports) - SCC 28, Nov 16, 10:45:39
        
        Thing is....I think you can say something like he allegedly did... (Other Sports) - SimonOTBC, Nov 16, 10:31:09
        
        In my view Vaughan clearly made a gag but now feels he can't admit it as (Other Sports) - Jim, Nov 16, 11:10:55
        
        Definition is difficult. (Other Sports) - norwaay, Nov 16, 11:19:35
        
        I'm not saying it wasn;t an inappropriate joke - my point is more that (Other Sports) - Jim, Nov 16, 11:41:06
        
        I don't see anyone trying to destroy Michael Vaughan. (Other Sports) - norwaay, Nov 16, 11:52:31
        
        I completely agree with you (Other Sports) - SimonOTBC, Nov 16, 12:04:42
        
        By fundamentally racist I mean truly prejudiced against a partiuclar group of people or (Other Sports) - Jim, Nov 16, 12:18:49
        
        A couple of points (Other Sports) - norwaay, Nov 16, 12:38:36
        
        Look you know as well as I do that the mob will be out for him (Other Sports) - Jim, Nov 16, 12:52:52
        
        VMT (n/m) (Other Sports) - SimonOTBC, Nov 16, 11:26:40
        
        Yeah he loves the bantz (Other Sports) - SCC 28, Nov 16, 11:14:14
        
        I think what Michael Vaughan in probably guilty off is a questionable sense of humour and (Other Sports) - Jim, Nov 16, 11:26:00
        
        What do you think about his Tweet saying that Moeen should go (Other Sports) - jamesward, Nov 16, 11:37:46
        
        somewhere in the middle (Other Sports) - CWC, Nov 16, 12:21:27
        
        Yes, agree (Other Sports) - SimonOTBC, Nov 16, 13:49:34
        
        FFS, what a wanker (n/m) (Other Sports) - jamesward, Nov 16, 11:16:54
        
        And deleted at least 2 of them (Other Sports) - SCC 28, Nov 16, 11:20:16
        
        It’s ‘always’ the cover up that gets you (Other Sports) - CWC, Nov 16, 10:34:46
        
        These frigging cover ups are institutionalised that's for sure. (Other Sports) - protheroe fitzgibbon, Nov 16, 10:50:15
        
        Career and legacy down the pan though? (Other Sports) - SCC 28, Nov 16, 10:38:10
        
        I think it is now (Other Sports) - SimonOTBC, Nov 16, 10:40:06
        
        Interesting that Rafiq says Hoggard spoke to him to apologise (Other Sports) - jamesward, Nov 16, 10:50:54
        
        Yeah an apology could have worked (Other Sports) - SCC 28, Nov 16, 10:50:50
        
        Yep, I don't remember it but, if I did say something inappropriate, I'm sorry (n/m) (Other Sports) - jamesward, Nov 16, 10:36:17
        
        He’s basically saying he’s squeaky clean (n/m) (Other Sports) - SCC 28, Nov 16, 10:51:36
        
        Yes and I find that totally unelievable (n/m) (Other Sports) - SimonOTBC, Nov 16, 11:08:40
        
        Absolutely (n/m) (Other Sports) - SimonOTBC, Nov 16, 10:35:51
  - What else has he said ? (n/m) (Other Sports) - protheroe fitzgibbon, Nov 16, 10:19:36
    - Root was Ballance's housemate and central to social events where comments were made. (Other Sports) - norwaay, Nov 16, 10:22:28
      - Implicitly guilty of saying nothing to stop it though (n/m) (Other Sports) - jamesward, Nov 16, 10:23:24
- All this shit doesn't surprise tbh,there's still an undercurrent of snobbery and racism (Other Sports) - protheroe fitzgibbon, Nov 16, 10:10:06
  - That’s why I stopped playing (Other Sports) - Old Man, Nov 16, 10:30:42
    - Yep vmt. (n/m) (Other Sports) - protheroe fitzgibbon, Nov 16, 10:47:12
  - Yep was always about when I played too. (n/m) (Other Sports) - DrDublin, Nov 16, 10:11:08
    - I'm surprised it was going on as late as it did really,and the (Other Sports) - protheroe fitzgibbon, Nov 16, 10:17:26
- Jonathan Agnew less than impressive on 5Live this morning. (Other Sports) - norwaay, Nov 16, 10:05:22
  - Agnew in being tone deaf and out of touch shocker (Other Sports) - Yellalee, Nov 16, 11:00:05
    - Agnew is an egotistical fool (Other Sports) - Sellbydave, Nov 16, 12:39:38
  - This doesn't entirely surprise me (n/m) (Other Sports) - jamesward, Nov 16, 10:06:03
- Bloody Hell, this shit is vile. (n/m) (Other Sports) - Garry Brooke, Nov 16, 10:03:49
  - Horrific. (n/m) (Other Sports) - DrDublin, Nov 16, 10:04:20
- But Vaughan said some nice things about Asian cricketers (Other Sports) - SCC 28, Nov 16, 10:01:37
  - He's got loads of Asian mates... (n/m) (Other Sports) - SimonOTBC, Nov 16, 10:17:23
  - You can absolutely imagine Vaughan saying the words he is alleged (Other Sports) - jamesward, Nov 16, 10:03:04
    - Yes (Other Sports) - SimonOTBC, Nov 16, 10:26:38
    - Just banter innit (Other Sports) - CWC, Nov 16, 10:23:51
    - definitely wouldn’t be out of character (n/m) (Other Sports) - SCC 28, Nov 16, 10:08:53
      - Beware the man with a smiley face. (n/m) (Other Sports) - DrDublin, Nov 16, 10:10:41

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