yes and it includes private spending in the UK too.

I don't think anyone here is saying that the NHS is perfect.

The funding is not higher outside the UK simply because of the model.

Posted By: Ralf Scrampton on January 8th 2018 at 12:59:25

Message Thread

So there's a new health secretary. Good riddance Hunt. (General Chat) - essexcanaryOTBC, Jan 8, 12:12:04
- Bit premature....... ? (n/m) (General Chat) - helvegtheowl, Jan 8, 15:45:24
  - See...... (n/m) (General Chat) - helvegtheowl, Jan 8, 20:12:17
- He's an NHS doctor isn't he? Presumably also does some private work like all the (General Chat) - Jim, Jan 8, 13:16:00
- Is this politics? (n/m) (General Chat) - CB41, Jan 8, 13:14:03
- Controversial but personally I think the UK should replace the NHS with a subsidised (General Chat) - Steve in Holland, Jan 8, 12:30:32
  - it's far less to do with the system and far more to do with the level of funding (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Jan 8, 12:46:39
    - Good chart here of how funding picture has changed since 2010 (General Chat) - Tricky Hawes, Jan 8, 13:22:40
      - Bit deceptive that one isn't it because its as a % of GDP (General Chat) - Jim, Jan 8, 13:25:31
        
        That's the only sensible way of showing it (General Chat) - Tricky Hawes, Jan 8, 13:37:28
        
        (Spending per head of population ignores price and wage increases every year.) (n/m) (General Chat) - Tricky Hawes, Jan 8, 13:38:46
        
        It should be a combination of % of GDP and per head that should be looked at (General Chat) - Jim, Jan 8, 13:57:07
    - Its both in my view (General Chat) - Jim, Jan 8, 13:21:44
      - Of course, when the population is growing by 500,000 ever year (General Chat) - Tricky Hawes, Jan 8, 13:25:19
        
        yes thats true, just saying that there are "capacity" issues (General Chat) - Jim, Jan 8, 13:29:24
        
        yes, years of under-funding and investment in infrastruce will create capacity issues. (n/m) (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Jan 8, 14:16:14
    - I disagree. Funding is important but the system is far more important. I am pretty (General Chat) - Steve in Holland, Jan 8, 12:53:26
      - The UK system is broken. Therefore funding is inefficiently deployed. Redesign required (n/m) (General Chat) - essexcanaryOTBC, Jan 8, 13:37:46
        
        That's the short version of what I'm saying. Perhaps the (General Chat) - Steve in Holland, Jan 8, 14:03:04
        
        you keep mentioning the scalability of the NHS. Why? (n/m) (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Jan 8, 15:26:39
        
        Because that's part of the problem and why it is struggling. As the population grows and (General Chat) - Steve in Holland, Jan 8, 17:08:53
      - The amount prescription drugs cost and agency staff is also pretty mind blowing (n/m) (General Chat) - Jim, Jan 8, 13:22:36
      - equally important in my book (General Chat) - CWC, Jan 8, 13:20:43
      - While I am here I'll mention the other unmentionable thing... (General Chat) - Steve in Holland, Jan 8, 13:07:31
        
        Serious question SiH (General Chat) - Gob on a Stick, Jan 8, 13:41:08
        
        Considerably higher. Here are last year's brackets (General Chat) - Steve in Holland, Jan 8, 14:06:57
        
        This is the chart / data you want (General Chat) - Tricky Hawes, Jan 8, 13:45:25
        
        Not quite that simple. This year the NL government underspent the budget! (n/m) (General Chat) - Steve in Holland, Jan 8, 14:08:06
      - yes and it includes private spending in the UK too. (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Jan 8, 12:59:25
        
        You can throw shitloads at it if you like, but (General Chat) - Steve in Holland, Jan 8, 13:22:21
        
        so you want the UK to increase private provision which will have the effect of increasing (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Jan 8, 14:09:54
        
        No I do not. I am saying that we put more in and that's why there is more spend. The (General Chat) - Steve in Holland, Jan 8, 14:16:22
        
        in what way is the NL system more scaleable than the NHS? (General Chat) - CWC, Jan 8, 14:49:04
        
        In that it doesn't rely on massive government projects to make adjustments. They are able (General Chat) - Steve in Holland, Jan 8, 15:39:11
        
        there's no doubt that the coalition's health reforms actually managed to introduce many (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Jan 8, 14:27:39
        
        I am not. My initial response was about system, not spend. You brought up the spend. I was (General Chat) - Steve in Holland, Jan 8, 14:40:21
        
        LESS about system, MORE about funding (my post) (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Jan 8, 15:22:32
        
        "Public does not automatically equate to bad management" (General Chat) - Steve in Holland, Jan 8, 15:40:53
        
        that's not very open minded of you Steve. (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Jan 8, 16:08:21
        
        I am open minded. But I'm also not blind to my experience. (n/m) (General Chat) - Steve in Holland, Jan 8, 17:11:31
        
        isn't that exactly what he's done? (n/m) (General Chat) - paulg, Jan 8, 16:19:37
        
        no he hasn't. (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Jan 8, 16:39:50
        
        so I shouldn't listen to either of you? (n/m) (General Chat) - paulg, Jan 8, 16:54:04
        
        well you seemingly haven't done so so far (n/m) (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Jan 8, 16:56:16
        
        ? (n/m) (General Chat) - paulg, Jan 8, 16:57:36
        
        Perhaps there is a way to implement it efficiently as a state run service, but (General Chat) - Steve in Holland, Jan 8, 14:50:20
        
        It's become politically intractable (General Chat) - paulg, Jan 8, 13:32:34
        
        Hagman's unsubstantiated post above is a perfect example (n/m) (General Chat) - Steve in Holland, Jan 8, 13:36:33
  - tbf the conflict point is a positive (General Chat) - CWC, Jan 8, 12:45:56
  - To add to that... (General Chat) - Steve in Holland, Jan 8, 12:35:26
    - that's my experience of the NHS also (General Chat) - paulg, Jan 8, 12:40:13
      - The NHS (system) has become a SHAMBLES. Not fit for purpose in 2018 (n/m) (General Chat) - essexcanaryOTBC, Jan 8, 13:36:11
        
        That's certainly the narrative the right wing papers want people to believe (General Chat) - Tricky Hawes, Jan 8, 13:41:21
        
        I'm far from right wing and it is exactly what I see. (n/m) (General Chat) - Steve in Holland, Jan 8, 14:08:42
      - Yes, I should add that individual carers were lovely (as they are in any system). But (General Chat) - Steve in Holland, Jan 8, 12:47:24
- Your analysis (General Chat) - jonncfc, Jan 8, 12:18:05
  - To which the answer isn't getting Branson to sue the NHS when he doesn't get a contract... (General Chat) - DrDublin, Jan 8, 13:06:34
  - Welcome to the WOTB (n/m) (General Chat) - paulg, Jan 8, 12:30:48
  - Yep, thought the same. (n/m) (General Chat) - Hulk Rules, Jan 8, 12:20:50

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