Controversial but personally I think the UK should replace the NHS with a subsidised
private system. The NHS model was perfect for its time but these days diagnosis is far earlier and more common, people are far more likely to visit a doctor, the population is greater and the medical profession is less attractive than industry. The worst would be the US or BUPA models which is what everybody thinks of when hearing the word "private" (e.g. pre-existing condition clauses and refusing to pay out etc), but in reality what we have in many European countries such as the Netherlands and France seems to work far better than the NHS while also being actually far more accessible.
My experience with NL is short waiting times, great treatment, and even when my ex was diagnosed with breast cancer without having any health insurance, not only did they not refuse her, but backdated the insurance to her first appointment a couple of months previous. The care was amazing, allowing us to tailor the treatment after a second opinion from the Royal Cancer institute, and even paid for her to take taxis to her radiotherapy appointments which were at a hospital a bit further away than usual.
I pay about 125 euros per month but if you're employed, usually an employer will pay at least part of that and if you're long term unemployed it will be paid for (if you're short term then you get 70% of your last salary from the dole anyway so shouldn't need subsidy). Now I am self employed I have to pay a few grand each year for it as I don't get the subsidy that non self-employed people get, and that in itself is funding much of the subsidy.
I would say be open minded to different models and don't see the NHS as holy. Doing that has seen the NHS fall behind other health services.
Having said all that, I think it is a conflict of interest having a health minister with such ties. Let's face it, the insurance companies here don't behave like that our of humanity, but because they are regulated by the government (e.g. it is illegal to refuse health insurance). I'm sure if, like the UK, there was no similar regulation in place then the insurance companies would be veering hard toward the US model.
Posted By: Steve in Holland on January 8th 2018 at 12:30:32
Message Thread
- So there's a new health secretary. Good riddance Hunt. (General Chat) - essexcanaryOTBC, Jan 8, 12:12:04
- Bit premature....... ? (n/m) (General Chat) - helvegtheowl, Jan 8, 15:45:24
- See...... (n/m) (General Chat) - helvegtheowl, Jan 8, 20:12:17
- He's an NHS doctor isn't he? Presumably also does some private work like all the (General Chat) - Jim, Jan 8, 13:16:00
- Is this politics? (n/m) (General Chat) - CB41, Jan 8, 13:14:03
- Controversial but personally I think the UK should replace the NHS with a subsidised (General Chat) - Steve in Holland, Jan 8, 12:30:32
- it's far less to do with the system and far more to do with the level of funding (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Jan 8, 12:46:39
- Good chart here of how funding picture has changed since 2010 (General Chat) - Tricky Hawes, Jan 8, 13:22:40
- Bit deceptive that one isn't it because its as a % of GDP (General Chat) - Jim, Jan 8, 13:25:31
- That's the only sensible way of showing it (General Chat) - Tricky Hawes, Jan 8, 13:37:28
- (Spending per head of population ignores price and wage increases every year.) (n/m) (General Chat) - Tricky Hawes, Jan 8, 13:38:46
- It should be a combination of % of GDP and per head that should be looked at (General Chat) - Jim, Jan 8, 13:57:07
- (Spending per head of population ignores price and wage increases every year.) (n/m) (General Chat) - Tricky Hawes, Jan 8, 13:38:46
- That's the only sensible way of showing it (General Chat) - Tricky Hawes, Jan 8, 13:37:28
- Bit deceptive that one isn't it because its as a % of GDP (General Chat) - Jim, Jan 8, 13:25:31
- Its both in my view (General Chat) - Jim, Jan 8, 13:21:44
- Of course, when the population is growing by 500,000 ever year (General Chat) - Tricky Hawes, Jan 8, 13:25:19
- yes thats true, just saying that there are "capacity" issues (General Chat) - Jim, Jan 8, 13:29:24
- yes, years of under-funding and investment in infrastruce will create capacity issues. (n/m) (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Jan 8, 14:16:14
- yes thats true, just saying that there are "capacity" issues (General Chat) - Jim, Jan 8, 13:29:24
- Of course, when the population is growing by 500,000 ever year (General Chat) - Tricky Hawes, Jan 8, 13:25:19
- I disagree. Funding is important but the system is far more important. I am pretty (General Chat) - Steve in Holland, Jan 8, 12:53:26
- The UK system is broken. Therefore funding is inefficiently deployed. Redesign required (n/m) (General Chat) - essexcanaryOTBC, Jan 8, 13:37:46
- That's the short version of what I'm saying. Perhaps the (General Chat) - Steve in Holland, Jan 8, 14:03:04
- you keep mentioning the scalability of the NHS. Why? (n/m) (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Jan 8, 15:26:39
- Because that's part of the problem and why it is struggling. As the population grows and (General Chat) - Steve in Holland, Jan 8, 17:08:53
- you keep mentioning the scalability of the NHS. Why? (n/m) (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Jan 8, 15:26:39
- That's the short version of what I'm saying. Perhaps the (General Chat) - Steve in Holland, Jan 8, 14:03:04
- The amount prescription drugs cost and agency staff is also pretty mind blowing (n/m) (General Chat) - Jim, Jan 8, 13:22:36
- equally important in my book (General Chat) - CWC, Jan 8, 13:20:43
- While I am here I'll mention the other unmentionable thing... (General Chat) - Steve in Holland, Jan 8, 13:07:31
- Serious question SiH (General Chat) - Gob on a Stick, Jan 8, 13:41:08
- Considerably higher. Here are last year's brackets (General Chat) - Steve in Holland, Jan 8, 14:06:57
- This is the chart / data you want (General Chat) - Tricky Hawes, Jan 8, 13:45:25
- Not quite that simple. This year the NL government underspent the budget! (n/m) (General Chat) - Steve in Holland, Jan 8, 14:08:06
- Serious question SiH (General Chat) - Gob on a Stick, Jan 8, 13:41:08
- yes and it includes private spending in the UK too. (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Jan 8, 12:59:25
- You can throw shitloads at it if you like, but (General Chat) - Steve in Holland, Jan 8, 13:22:21
- so you want the UK to increase private provision which will have the effect of increasing (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Jan 8, 14:09:54
- No I do not. I am saying that we put more in and that's why there is more spend. The (General Chat) - Steve in Holland, Jan 8, 14:16:22
- in what way is the NL system more scaleable than the NHS? (General Chat) - CWC, Jan 8, 14:49:04
- In that it doesn't rely on massive government projects to make adjustments. They are able (General Chat) - Steve in Holland, Jan 8, 15:39:11
- there's no doubt that the coalition's health reforms actually managed to introduce many (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Jan 8, 14:27:39
- I am not. My initial response was about system, not spend. You brought up the spend. I was (General Chat) - Steve in Holland, Jan 8, 14:40:21
- LESS about system, MORE about funding (my post) (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Jan 8, 15:22:32
- "Public does not automatically equate to bad management" (General Chat) - Steve in Holland, Jan 8, 15:40:53
- that's not very open minded of you Steve. (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Jan 8, 16:08:21
- I am open minded. But I'm also not blind to my experience. (n/m) (General Chat) - Steve in Holland, Jan 8, 17:11:31
- isn't that exactly what he's done? (n/m) (General Chat) - paulg, Jan 8, 16:19:37
- no he hasn't. (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Jan 8, 16:39:50
- so I shouldn't listen to either of you? (n/m) (General Chat) - paulg, Jan 8, 16:54:04
- well you seemingly haven't done so so far (n/m) (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Jan 8, 16:56:16
- so I shouldn't listen to either of you? (n/m) (General Chat) - paulg, Jan 8, 16:54:04
- no he hasn't. (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Jan 8, 16:39:50
- that's not very open minded of you Steve. (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Jan 8, 16:08:21
- "Public does not automatically equate to bad management" (General Chat) - Steve in Holland, Jan 8, 15:40:53
- Perhaps there is a way to implement it efficiently as a state run service, but (General Chat) - Steve in Holland, Jan 8, 14:50:20
- LESS about system, MORE about funding (my post) (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Jan 8, 15:22:32
- I am not. My initial response was about system, not spend. You brought up the spend. I was (General Chat) - Steve in Holland, Jan 8, 14:40:21
- in what way is the NL system more scaleable than the NHS? (General Chat) - CWC, Jan 8, 14:49:04
- No I do not. I am saying that we put more in and that's why there is more spend. The (General Chat) - Steve in Holland, Jan 8, 14:16:22
- It's become politically intractable (General Chat) - paulg, Jan 8, 13:32:34
- Hagman's unsubstantiated post above is a perfect example (n/m) (General Chat) - Steve in Holland, Jan 8, 13:36:33
- so you want the UK to increase private provision which will have the effect of increasing (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Jan 8, 14:09:54
- You can throw shitloads at it if you like, but (General Chat) - Steve in Holland, Jan 8, 13:22:21
- The UK system is broken. Therefore funding is inefficiently deployed. Redesign required (n/m) (General Chat) - essexcanaryOTBC, Jan 8, 13:37:46
- Good chart here of how funding picture has changed since 2010 (General Chat) - Tricky Hawes, Jan 8, 13:22:40
- tbf the conflict point is a positive (General Chat) - CWC, Jan 8, 12:45:56
- To add to that... (General Chat) - Steve in Holland, Jan 8, 12:35:26
- that's my experience of the NHS also (General Chat) - paulg, Jan 8, 12:40:13
- The NHS (system) has become a SHAMBLES. Not fit for purpose in 2018 (n/m) (General Chat) - essexcanaryOTBC, Jan 8, 13:36:11
- That's certainly the narrative the right wing papers want people to believe (General Chat) - Tricky Hawes, Jan 8, 13:41:21
- I'm far from right wing and it is exactly what I see. (n/m) (General Chat) - Steve in Holland, Jan 8, 14:08:42
- That's certainly the narrative the right wing papers want people to believe (General Chat) - Tricky Hawes, Jan 8, 13:41:21
- Yes, I should add that individual carers were lovely (as they are in any system). But (General Chat) - Steve in Holland, Jan 8, 12:47:24
- The NHS (system) has become a SHAMBLES. Not fit for purpose in 2018 (n/m) (General Chat) - essexcanaryOTBC, Jan 8, 13:36:11
- that's my experience of the NHS also (General Chat) - paulg, Jan 8, 12:40:13
- it's far less to do with the system and far more to do with the level of funding (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Jan 8, 12:46:39
- Your analysis (General Chat) - jonncfc, Jan 8, 12:18:05
- To which the answer isn't getting Branson to sue the NHS when he doesn't get a contract... (General Chat) - DrDublin, Jan 8, 13:06:34
- Welcome to the WOTB (n/m) (General Chat) - paulg, Jan 8, 12:30:48
- Yep, thought the same. (n/m) (General Chat) - Hulk Rules, Jan 8, 12:20:50
- Bit premature....... ? (n/m) (General Chat) - helvegtheowl, Jan 8, 15:45:24
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