Avoidance not evasion!! Arrgghh grinds my gears this one
Evasion is consciously not paying tax which you know to be due. It's dishonest. There's NO WAY Rayner is an evader.
Avoidance is taking steps to reduce your tax burden, believing (rightly or wrongly) that those steps are legal and that their effect is that you genuinely don't have to pay the tax.
Some avoidance is totally mainstream, like investing in an ISA or a VCT. It's a government approved way of avoiding tax, for the perceived social benefit of encouraging the investment.
But clever tax lawyers and accountants then look at the legitimate avoidance methods and try to turbo charge them to produce a tax benefit which parliament never intended.
A classic example is the film schemes which many footballers invested in. The intention was to encourage investment in the British film industry by creating tax breaks for investors. A whole tax avoidance industry then grew up around that simple intention, with advisers creating more and more elaborate and artificial schemes designed to create massive tax advantages while taking no risks.
Going back to Rayner, she might just have been careless (failing to tell her conveyancers that she was a trustee of a house held for a minor). But she might be an avoider in that she decided to take two separate but linked steps with the intention of reducing her stamp duty bill.
Step A - sell her 25% interest in the house to her child's trust.
Step B - use the cash she's extracted from the trust to part fund the purchase of what is in reality a second home, but being able to tell the conveyancer with a straight face that she doesn't own another property (because of Step A).
She may have dreamt that up herself or someone may have suggested it to her. But if that was how it worked ("I'll take Step A in order to produce the benefit at Step B") then it's classic avoidance, regardless of whether it worked or not.
It's no different from MPs "flipping" their main residence choices to benefit from CGT advantage. User Posted Link Kitty Ussher did that on the advice of her accountants eg and had to resign User Posted Link
Posted By: Old Git on September 5th 2025 at 09:52:38
Message Thread
- Rayner to go today - this article from the D Telegraph is damning (General Chat) - JoeyDeacon, Sep 5, 06:51:18
- The only thing that is damning here (General Chat) - Henclrikus, Sep 5, 11:56:39
- It’s journalistic licence (General Chat) - JoeyDeacon, Sep 5, 12:22:12
- Show me where I am defending Rayner? (General Chat) - Henclrikus, Sep 5, 12:30:55
- I’ve never sold a house so can’t answer that question (General Chat) - JoeyDeacon, Sep 5, 12:39:16
- stone me (General Chat) - Henclrikus, Sep 5, 13:11:51
- Come on you’re clutching at straws to defend your beloved Angela now (n/m) (General Chat) - JoeyDeacon, Sep 5, 13:24:03
- Again, show me any defence of her actual actions? (General Chat) - Henclrikus, Sep 5, 13:39:32
- Rayner's house is 30 per cent LARGER than others on the same street (General Chat) - Henclrikus, Sep 5, 13:57:55
- This does not equate to 30% extra value (General Chat) - JoeyDeacon, Sep 5, 17:05:46
- The valuation of the house is not the real issue (General Chat) - Henclrikus, Sep 5, 18:29:19
- I pay my taxes pure and simple (n/m) (General Chat) - JoeyDeacon, Sep 5, 19:02:52
- Exactly the kind of non-answer a politician gives. (General Chat) - Henclrikus, Sep 5, 19:19:50
- You accused me of exploiting allowances bands and valuations (General Chat) - JoeyDeacon, Sep 5, 20:13:39
- Absolutely. If you don't exploit these then you are not (General Chat) - Henclrikus, Sep 5, 20:59:24
- Genuinely no red (n/m) (General Chat) - JoeyDeacon, Sep 5, 21:02:24
- Mist here (General Chat) - JoeyDeacon, Sep 5, 21:02:53
- Just a white flag (n/m) (General Chat) - norwaay, Sep 5, 23:03:37
- Not at all - you really are a prick (n/m) (General Chat) - JoeyDeacon, Sep 6, 12:29:29
- Just a white flag (n/m) (General Chat) - norwaay, Sep 5, 23:03:37
- Mist here (General Chat) - JoeyDeacon, Sep 5, 21:02:53
- Genuinely no red (n/m) (General Chat) - JoeyDeacon, Sep 5, 21:02:24
- Absolutely. If you don't exploit these then you are not (General Chat) - Henclrikus, Sep 5, 20:59:24
- You accused me of exploiting allowances bands and valuations (General Chat) - JoeyDeacon, Sep 5, 20:13:39
- Exactly the kind of non-answer a politician gives. (General Chat) - Henclrikus, Sep 5, 19:19:50
- I pay my taxes pure and simple (n/m) (General Chat) - JoeyDeacon, Sep 5, 19:02:52
- The valuation of the house is not the real issue (General Chat) - Henclrikus, Sep 5, 18:29:19
- This does not equate to 30% extra value (General Chat) - JoeyDeacon, Sep 5, 17:05:46
- Rayner's house is 30 per cent LARGER than others on the same street (General Chat) - Henclrikus, Sep 5, 13:57:55
- Great comeback 🥴 (n/m) (General Chat) - norwaay, Sep 5, 13:35:35
- Not using your other login today? (n/m) (General Chat) - JoeyDeacon, Sep 5, 17:06:59
- Again, show me any defence of her actual actions? (General Chat) - Henclrikus, Sep 5, 13:39:32
- Come on you’re clutching at straws to defend your beloved Angela now (n/m) (General Chat) - JoeyDeacon, Sep 5, 13:24:03
- stone me (General Chat) - Henclrikus, Sep 5, 13:11:51
- I’ve never sold a house so can’t answer that question (General Chat) - JoeyDeacon, Sep 5, 12:39:16
- Show me where I am defending Rayner? (General Chat) - Henclrikus, Sep 5, 12:30:55
- Here is a newspaper actively promoting tax avoidance on a second home (General Chat) - Henclrikus, Sep 5, 12:07:57
- It’s journalistic licence (General Chat) - JoeyDeacon, Sep 5, 12:22:12
- She has stolen from her disabled child😡 (n/m) (General Chat) - KevinBond, Sep 5, 11:32:33
- The whole of parliament is awful. We desperately need an overhaul of things. (n/m) (General Chat) - Noah_Lahms, Sep 5, 10:36:45
- We need to get rid of the FPTP system and replace with PR for a start (General Chat) - tim berry, Sep 5, 11:09:46
- Unfortunately PR, which I’ve advocated for a long time, would’ve put a lot more Reformers (General Chat) - Augustus Pablo, Sep 5, 12:35:25
- That would be an unwanted but necessary consequence (General Chat) - tim berry, Sep 5, 14:09:53
- Yes but Reform are still having a disproportionate effect on our politics (General Chat) - Knitted Jesus, Sep 5, 12:48:49
- FTP is outdated. SFTP protocol is more secure and the norm these days, (n/m) (General Chat) - Milko, Sep 5, 11:26:28
- Unfortunately PR, which I’ve advocated for a long time, would’ve put a lot more Reformers (General Chat) - Augustus Pablo, Sep 5, 12:35:25
- We need to get rid of the FPTP system and replace with PR for a start (General Chat) - tim berry, Sep 5, 11:09:46
- We live in hope she goes. (General Chat) - Disco, Sep 5, 09:30:12
- Which ones do you respect? (General Chat) - footymadman, Sep 5, 10:07:11
- I’m sure the papers will be equally frothing about Farage tax dodging (General Chat) - Tressells Broadbrush, Sep 5, 09:07:40
- Just out of interest how much tax do you pay when taking money out of a Ltd co? (General Chat) - JoeyDeacon, Sep 5, 09:40:11
- He's not the Deputy Prime Minister (General Chat) - Old Git, Sep 5, 09:37:28
- Double standards (n/m) (General Chat) - footymadman, Sep 5, 09:23:27
- You've been as naughty as the telegraph! (General Chat) - trafford_canary, Sep 5, 08:00:21
- It's still not great though (General Chat) - Kangol Canary, Sep 5, 08:56:59
- Reporting which exposes tax evaders at the very least? (General Chat) - JoeyDeacon, Sep 5, 08:17:22
- Avoidance not evasion!! Arrgghh grinds my gears this one (General Chat) - Old Git, Sep 5, 09:52:38
- ISAs, and other tax incentives, are not tax avoidance (General Chat) - SimonOTBC, Sep 5, 12:15:23
- You are correct - slapped wrist (n/m) (General Chat) - JoeyDeacon, Sep 5, 09:55:51
- Using the telegraph as a news source (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 5, 08:38:31
- I don't read it but I do give it credit for exposing the MP expenses scandal (n/m) (General Chat) - Old Git, Sep 5, 09:36:35
- It is infinitely better than YouTube videos or FB rants (n/m) (General Chat) - Legacy Fan, Sep 5, 08:49:22
- A posher version tbh (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 5, 08:56:33
- It's almost as dodgy for news as The Guardian (General Chat) - phrankin, Sep 5, 08:43:31
- 100% agree. (n/m) (General Chat) - Milko, Sep 5, 11:30:52
- False equivalence Evidence? (General Chat) - Tressells Broadbrush, Sep 5, 09:26:59
- I don't disagree. But there's some seriously dodgy reporting there (General Chat) - trafford_canary, Sep 5, 08:19:02
- Course not (n/m) (General Chat) - footymadman, Sep 5, 09:24:26
- ... (General Chat) - paulg, Sep 5, 09:06:28
- 16 years ago (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 5, 09:18:15
- best idea would be to exempt mp's from tax liabilities as they are serving their country (General Chat) - Tombs, Sep 5, 09:32:18
- 16 years ago (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 5, 09:18:15
- Is it seriously dodgy? (General Chat) - JoeyDeacon, Sep 5, 09:00:46
- Avoidance not evasion!! Arrgghh grinds my gears this one (General Chat) - Old Git, Sep 5, 09:52:38
- Also in the future (General Chat) - Tony Martin, Sep 5, 06:59:35
- To read without a subscription smry.ai is useful as posted by AP last week (n/m) (General Chat) - JoeyDeacon, Sep 5, 06:52:16
- Fee evasion hypocrite. (n/m) (General Chat) - footymadman, Sep 5, 09:24:58
- I have a subscription - I appreciate many don’t (n/m) (General Chat) - JoeyDeacon, Sep 5, 10:27:43
- I’m just standing up against BIG PAPER! (n/m) (General Chat) - Augustus Pablo, Sep 5, 10:21:57
- Fee evasion hypocrite. (n/m) (General Chat) - footymadman, Sep 5, 09:24:58
- The only thing that is damning here (General Chat) - Henclrikus, Sep 5, 11:56:39
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