I definitely agree with that in general

very difficult to draw any firm conclusions. But I do think that most of W Europe do seem to be struggling by pretty much all metrics (deaths/economy/loss of freedoms) compared with C/E Europe and Asia so far.

I think at heart it's also a philosophical issue; how many deaths are we prepared to accept from the virus? For example, is 2-3k people dying per month 'acceptable'? And if so, what are the most minimal restrictions that would prevent that number from being exceeded. I presume the govt is making these kind of calculations behind closed doors, but it really should be a public discussion. I suppose it would be political suicide in the current climate though; give so much ammunition to the opposition.

Posted By: Mecagoenti on September 10th 2020 at 15:29:15

Message Thread

No 2 son is ill (General Chat) - Under soil heating, Sep 10, 12:18:03
- 🤣🤣🤣🤣🔰🔰🖕 (n/m) (General Chat) - protheroe fitzgibbon, Sep 10, 18:18:08
- A HUNDRED!!!!! (n/m) (General Chat) - protheroe fitzgibbon, Sep 10, 18:17:43
- I have my third covid test in a month on Monday (General Chat) - Pukki Pies, Sep 10, 15:54:05
- it's a cold mate (General Chat) - CWC, Sep 10, 14:30:35
  - Got to say I agree with you (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 10, 14:33:58
    - we're not and it won't (General Chat) - CWC, Sep 10, 14:37:53
      - hmm (General Chat) - CWC, Sep 10, 14:38:17
    - Scientifically unlikely (General Chat) - jamesward, Sep 10, 14:36:09
- Get well soon USH minor (n/m) (General Chat) - Old Git, Sep 10, 14:20:14
- At our school (General Chat) - Jester, Sep 10, 14:14:13
- Thats a crap situation, but... (General Chat) - CommonSensePolice, Sep 10, 14:00:49
  - You can't ignore all that they got wrong (General Chat) - marsupialman, Sep 10, 19:42:17
    - Yes, great article and... (General Chat) - CommonSensePolice, Sep 10, 20:57:00
      - If the NHS coped with the surge (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 10, 21:29:26
        
        I mean, I was literally quoting the article (General Chat) - CommonSensePolice, Sep 10, 21:57:22
        
        The nightingales weren’t even used ffs! (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 10, 22:18:46
        
        I'm so confused. (General Chat) - CommonSensePolice, Sep 10, 22:35:09
        
        The NHS didn’t cope and the nightingales weren’t required (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 10, 22:56:38
        
        But no I don’t think I wanted stricter lockdown like Spain and Italy (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 10, 23:00:09
    - Far too many words you bell end.But yeah the Tories fucked up imo. (n/m) (General Chat) - protheroe fitzgibbon, Sep 10, 19:50:07
      - If you're struggling with the amount of words, (General Chat) - marsupialman, Sep 10, 19:52:16
        
        Another “new” poster. (n/m) (General Chat) - Wrath analytica, Sep 10, 20:30:16
        
        Sorry I'm new :( (n/m) (General Chat) - CommonSensePolice, Sep 10, 20:58:00
        
        Rolf,whatever. The Tories deliberately gave out misinformation (General Chat) - protheroe fitzgibbon, Sep 10, 21:14:05
        
        I'm a bit confused by what you are getting at? (General Chat) - CommonSensePolice, Sep 10, 21:21:08
        
        Uh.Uh.Yeah operation Cygnus in 2016 was in preparation for (General Chat) - protheroe fitzgibbon, Sep 10, 21:33:24
        
        And that led to other nations not having ppe shortages? (n/m) (General Chat) - CommonSensePolice, Sep 10, 21:58:42
        
        Wow proth more informed than CSP (n/m) (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 10, 21:36:21
        
        Maybe, but it doesn't seem that way. (General Chat) - CommonSensePolice, Sep 10, 22:02:41
        
        Nobody has said PPE wasn’t an issue elsewhere (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 10, 22:23:33
  - Not sure why people think the government has done badly tbh (General Chat) - jamesward, Sep 10, 14:28:00
    - But if we ignore (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 10, 14:32:35
      - mass death. ffs. (General Chat) - CWC, Sep 10, 14:41:36
        
        The Srebrenica massacre was around 8000 (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 10, 15:41:03
        
        good point. The annual flu massacre certainly puts it into perspective (n/m) (General Chat) - Mecagoenti, Sep 10, 15:42:46
        
        We do everything we can to prevent flu deaths (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 10, 15:51:31
        
        that's clearly not true (General Chat) - Mecagoenti, Sep 10, 16:02:08
        
        Haha we have a vaccine (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 10, 16:06:14
        
        well a vaccine is just one measure (General Chat) - Mecagoenti, Sep 10, 16:09:06
        
        Flu deaths are an estimate (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 10, 16:15:49
        
        that's my feelings as well (General Chat) - Mecagoenti, Sep 10, 16:22:46
        
        In fairness it’s the epidemiologists guiding now (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 10, 16:25:33
        
        but that's part of what's wrong (General Chat) - paulg, Sep 10, 17:17:50
        
        So government shouldn’t follow expert advice (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 10, 17:20:36
        
        Of course they shouldn't follow it (General Chat) - Mecagoenti, Sep 10, 18:05:56
        
        You’re pretending they design policy (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 10, 18:46:08
        
        & I did mean that (n/m) (General Chat) - paulg, Sep 10, 18:14:24
        
        I didn't mean or say that, as I think you are well aware. (n/m) (General Chat) - paulg, Sep 10, 17:31:26
        
        Common sense would have saved tens of thousands (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 10, 15:31:00
        
        You do tend to think we should have just carried on though (General Chat) - jamesward, Sep 10, 15:02:15
        
        Wrong (General Chat) - CWC, Sep 10, 15:14:36
        
        I agree with much of that, in that case (n/m) (General Chat) - jamesward, Sep 10, 15:40:27
        
        Yes common sense would have seen that happen (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 10, 15:33:03
        
        The reality is that the virus was likely in the country earlier... (General Chat) - CommonSensePolice, Sep 10, 15:22:02
        
        FFS the issue was the spread (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 10, 15:34:42
        
        Now you need to be honest now,if you are genuinely concerned with the spread of this vir (General Chat) - protheroe fitzgibbon, Sep 10, 16:20:11
        
        The thing is outdoors is such low risk of transmission (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 10, 16:32:34
        
        and if there's no need ... it's unlawful #justsayin ;) (n/m) (General Chat) - paulg, Sep 10, 17:33:18
        
        If they've got face masks I think I'd agree. (n/m) (General Chat) - protheroe fitzgibbon, Sep 10, 16:33:47
        
        I mean you don't know me or my level of intelligence... (General Chat) - CommonSensePolice, Sep 10, 15:54:50
        
        The first UK death was January 15th, symptoms of Coronavirus present Mid December.. (n/m) (General Chat) - Vivid Data Shark, Sep 10, 18:11:42
        
        I'm not sure what data you are referring to (General Chat) - CommonSensePolice, Sep 10, 18:18:41
        
        Article from the Metro the other day (General Chat) - Vivid Data Shark, Sep 10, 18:26:52
        
        Just a few days delay makes a huge difference with exponential growth (General Chat) - Merrysummer, Sep 10, 16:10:31
        
        They delayed massively (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 10, 16:03:27
        
        Exactly this (General Chat) - Merrysummer, Sep 10, 16:16:07
        
        Do you guys have any facts around what you are saying? (General Chat) - CommonSensePolice, Sep 10, 17:07:25
        
        Oi CSP (General Chat) - protheroe fitzgibbon, Sep 10, 17:52:21
        
        Well it’s in the sage minutes and sage press briefing from mid March (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 10, 17:24:46
        
        This is the thing. (General Chat) - CommonSensePolice, Sep 10, 17:56:28
        
        Yes Vallance said that (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 10, 18:52:36
        
        Ok, but just because you say it, doesn't mean it's true. (General Chat) - CommonSensePolice, Sep 10, 19:29:54
        
        It’s not me saying it, it’s on record ffs (n/m) (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 10, 20:43:16
        
        I’m well aware of what you posted (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 10, 20:38:21
        
        Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that. (General Chat) - CommonSensePolice, Sep 10, 21:07:07
        
        I think places like New Zealand did (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 10, 21:21:53
        
        From what I can gather (General Chat) - CommonSensePolice, Sep 10, 21:41:06
        
        The buck stops with the government (General Chat) - Merrysummer, Sep 10, 20:18:35
        
        I'm not defending them... And I agree that the buck stops with the government. (General Chat) - CommonSensePolice, Sep 10, 20:43:28
        
        Everything he said is true (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 10, 20:56:41
        
        Honestly, I may be ignorant... (General Chat) - CommonSensePolice, Sep 10, 21:14:04
        
        You don’t seem like you have an agenda (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 10, 21:35:11
        
        Again, if there's specific evidence for us not following the science... (General Chat) - CommonSensePolice, Sep 10, 21:49:35
        
        Yep the rest of the world looked on in horror (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 10, 20:42:03
        
        Another “new” poster w (General Chat) - Wrath analytica, Sep 10, 20:27:33
        
        And it wasn’t just the delay in lockdown (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 10, 18:57:19
        
        I get the thrust of your argument, but... (General Chat) - CWC, Sep 10, 15:28:37
        
        Yeah and I get that too. (General Chat) - CommonSensePolice, Sep 10, 15:38:46
        
        Completely agree with this (General Chat) - Mecagoenti, Sep 10, 14:55:41
        
        isn't it just (General Chat) - CWC, Sep 10, 15:01:26
        
        yeah, it's a bit scary (General Chat) - Mecagoenti, Sep 10, 15:16:44
        
        it's remarkable, truly remarkable (General Chat) - paulg, Sep 10, 17:38:50
        
        Isn’t 65,000 excess deaths “mass deaths”? (General Chat) - jamesward, Sep 10, 14:46:22
        
        which as a percentage increase is.....? (General Chat) - CWC, Sep 10, 14:56:37
      - Give em the benefit of the doubt I say (General Chat) - jamesward, Sep 10, 14:33:32
        
        This is part of the problem I'm highlighting (General Chat) - CommonSensePolice, Sep 10, 14:40:47
        
        People in Kent are being told to drive to Scotland for a test (General Chat) - Merrysummer, Sep 10, 14:54:48
        
        They are being told that the... (General Chat) - Jester, Sep 10, 15:04:19
        
        Spot on (n/m) (General Chat) - CommonSensePolice, Sep 10, 15:13:24
        
        This is odd though, from EDP (General Chat) - jamesward, Sep 10, 15:05:48
        
        All at the same time? (General Chat) - Jester, Sep 10, 15:29:00
        
        Sure, thats awful (General Chat) - CommonSensePolice, Sep 10, 15:00:55
  - "There have been big big failures" (General Chat) - WestYorksCanary, Sep 10, 14:21:53
    - Yes, you've just proved my point. (General Chat) - CommonSensePolice, Sep 10, 14:25:38
      - The bad overwhelmingly outweighs the good ... (General Chat) - loz, Sep 10, 14:30:13
        
        Does it though? (General Chat) - CommonSensePolice, Sep 10, 14:37:35
        
        We've had the most deaths (for the size of population) and the biggest hit to our economy (n/m) (General Chat) - jampersands, Sep 10, 14:55:40
        
        Sure, but what the factors involved in that? (General Chat) - CommonSensePolice, Sep 10, 15:11:38
        
        What more could have been done in the early days? Are you for real? (n/m) (General Chat) - Merrysummer, Sep 10, 15:51:00
        
        Yes. (General Chat) - CommonSensePolice, Sep 10, 17:23:37
        
        They dithered on locking down ... (General Chat) - loz, Sep 10, 15:20:57
        
        Sure, will be interesting to see if that actually contributed (General Chat) - CommonSensePolice, Sep 10, 15:30:19
        
        It’s as much about the hyperbole with which they trail things (General Chat) - jamesward, Sep 10, 14:44:13
        
        100% agree with that. (General Chat) - CommonSensePolice, Sep 10, 14:49:45
        
        Yep, pretty much this (n/m) (General Chat) - WestYorksCanary, Sep 10, 14:48:56
      - No I haven't (General Chat) - WestYorksCanary, Sep 10, 14:29:46
        
        Ok, sorry, I made an assumption there (General Chat) - CommonSensePolice, Sep 10, 14:32:24
  - Common sense lacking lol (n/m) (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 10, 14:12:48
- Time for a moonshot 11? (n/m) (General Chat) - pinkney, Sep 10, 13:38:36
- We have an incompetent government (General Chat) - jampersands, Sep 10, 13:20:10
  - it would be interesting to see your evidence (General Chat) - Henclrikus, Sep 10, 14:03:55
    - there are plenty of other governments in Europe who have handled with (General Chat) - Mecagoenti, Sep 10, 14:30:50
      - It is faaaaaaaaaar too early to know which Govt has handled it well and which Govt hasnt (General Chat) - CWC, Sep 10, 14:35:17
        
        I don't agree that it's far too early to draw conclusions (General Chat) - Mecagoenti, Sep 10, 14:53:10
        
        that's a rather different argument... (General Chat) - CWC, Sep 10, 15:08:47
        
        I definitely agree with that in general (General Chat) - Mecagoenti, Sep 10, 15:29:15
    - The (in)competence of this Gov is entirely separate to what any other party would do in (General Chat) - WestYorksCanary, Sep 10, 14:14:40
      - Also separate from being Tory (n/m) (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 10, 14:16:37
    - Haha Jesus (n/m) (General Chat) - SCC 28, Sep 10, 14:14:37
  - moi aussi. (n/m) (General Chat) - wayne, Sep 10, 13:26:13
  - I'll second this post before it get's deleted (n/m) (General Chat) - WestYorksCanary, Sep 10, 13:24:53
- Had the same problem (General Chat) - Mr Perfect, Sep 10, 13:01:46
- you should get him tested - sorry mate (n/m) (General Chat) - Joe Strimmer, Sep 10, 12:54:29
  - According to Hancock it’s our fault for asking for test (General Chat) - pinkney, Sep 10, 13:41:01
  - How. There are no tests available (n/m) (General Chat) - Mr Perfect, Sep 10, 13:08:57
- ... (General Chat) - jackamo, Sep 10, 12:32:22
  - The world has gone to shit to the extent we are getting covid diagnoses via the Sun :-( (n/m) (General Chat) - Timmy_Goat, Sep 10, 13:17:31
- I've got a spare test atm if you need it. (n/m) (General Chat) - protheroe fitzgibbon, Sep 10, 12:29:54
- Not really sure how this has happened (General Chat) - jamesward, Sep 10, 12:22:01

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