I think it’s a question of two sets of mutually exclusive ‘red lines’ (too many words)
One of the achievements of the GFA that did so much to reduce violence was the elimination of a hard border between the Republic and N.Ireland. This was possible because both were also members of the EU, & therefore following a common set of rules for goods & services as part of the Customs Union. It also satisfied unionist fears about N.Ireland being split off from the UK as we were also following the same set of rules & regulations.
The UK’s withdrawal from the EU raises the possibility that the UK will no longer follow the same regulatory regime, and hence the need to restore a border on the island of Ireland to ensure that goods & services crossing it meet Ireland’s regulatory requirements (the EU’s) - as well as vice versa (goods crossing the other way meet whatever new set of rules and regulations we decide to adopt). As I understand the WA that May negotiated there was also a commitment to negotiate a new trade agreement that would match the EU’s standards, with a backstop that in the event that isn’t possible N.Ireland stays with the customs union. Effectively this puts the border in the Irish sea and would create a difference between the rest of the UK & N.Ireland - unacceptable to Unionists.
Johnson’s proposals address Unionist concerns by allowing them a veto on staying within the Customs Union after an initial transition period, and then every 4 years. Ignoring the fact that Stormont has been suspended for three years, that does give a democratic say to an institution that N.Ireland people vote for, but it’s the implications of any such vote for a border that makes it unlikely to be acceptable to Ireland, and therefore the EU. The proposals try to square that particular circle with talk of technology, innovative arrangements and spot checks on premises to avoid the need for a hard border. There is a lot of discussion about how practical and possible these alternative arrangements are, and also whether one aspect (checks at N.Ireland and rest of UK ports and airports for trade between Ireland/N.Ireland and the rest of the UK) don’t in reality mean a border at the Irish Sea, originally a Unionist red line. This is where Johnson hopes to get compromise from the EU - but see below for why other aspects of his proposals may make that less likely.
Another aspect of Johnson’s proposals is that they’ve included statements indicating they do want regulatory divergence. If that is so we can adopt higher standards than the EU, I don’t think anyone has a problem with that, however the ERG and others in the Brexiter wing have always seen this is as an opportunity to score a competitive advantage by reducing regulations and allowing lower standards in a number of areas. Along with the backstop this has been a reason why the ERG have been voting against efforts to leave so I whilst this removal of the commitment to match EU standards (along with the changes to the backstop) may be how Johnson will get the DUP & the ERG onside to his proposals, they probably have the opposite effect in getting acceptance from Ireland and the rest of the EU.
Posted By: Tressells Broadbrush on October 3rd 2019 at 11:00:11
Message Thread
- Proposals are not that bad IMO. Could probably get through parliament (n/m) (General Chat) - KetteringRyu, Oct 3, 08:29:07
- As long as the criminals who make a living from border issues between (General Chat) - promethian1, Oct 3, 10:41:58
- The "Irish Border Issue" (General Chat) - paulg, Oct 3, 09:52:44
- Best solution is to stick the border in the Irish Sea & leave NI in the Customs Union (General Chat) - mr carra, Oct 3, 11:02:06
- That would be neater yes. Bung them some more cash! (n/m) (General Chat) - Jim, Oct 3, 11:05:59
- Johnson's plan already includes giving them more cash (n/m) (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Oct 3, 11:27:31
- That would be neater yes. Bung them some more cash! (n/m) (General Chat) - Jim, Oct 3, 11:05:59
- I think it’s a question of two sets of mutually exclusive ‘red lines’ (too many words) (General Chat) - Tressells Broadbrush, Oct 3, 11:00:11
- Good post. I still think that a NI only time limited backstop is the way out of this (General Chat) - Jim, Oct 3, 11:12:14
- Probably depends on what they think are the consequences of flexibility on the backstop (General Chat) - Tressells Broadbrush, Oct 3, 11:32:24
- I don;t see though how they can get a watertight backstop. They need to (General Chat) - Jim, Oct 3, 11:41:03
- I think they will accept that (General Chat) - Tressells Broadbrush, Oct 3, 12:03:36
- on the flip side, I could see them agreeing it (General Chat) - CWC, Oct 3, 13:39:26
- I think they will accept that (General Chat) - Tressells Broadbrush, Oct 3, 12:03:36
- I don;t see though how they can get a watertight backstop. They need to (General Chat) - Jim, Oct 3, 11:41:03
- Probably depends on what they think are the consequences of flexibility on the backstop (General Chat) - Tressells Broadbrush, Oct 3, 11:32:24
- Good post. I still think that a NI only time limited backstop is the way out of this (General Chat) - Jim, Oct 3, 11:12:14
- DUP want to keep the border (only main party to reject the GFA) (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Oct 3, 10:35:02
- Best solution is to stick the border in the Irish Sea & leave NI in the Customs Union (General Chat) - mr carra, Oct 3, 11:02:06
- They drive a coach and horses through the GFA (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Oct 3, 09:27:47
- No they don't. This nonsense should not have been allowed to be consistently (General Chat) - Jim, Oct 3, 10:52:52
- see below (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Oct 3, 11:29:44
- Fair point. It just annoys me when politicians throw about "its contrary to the GFA" when (General Chat) - Jim, Oct 3, 11:32:15
- no, the spirit of the GFA is to allow for those that feel Irish to live in Norn Iron (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Oct 3, 11:44:48
- Of course it is but we were talking about the border and my point was (General Chat) - Jim, Oct 3, 11:47:56
- the UK government are framing it as only being a problem about customs checks and a border (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Oct 3, 13:11:36
- Ralf,you really should go into politics mate.i don't know who's you'd (General Chat) - protheroe fitzgibbon, Oct 3, 13:49:34
- Which is why they are leaving it up to NI and Ireland to decide (n/m) (General Chat) - KetteringRyu, Oct 3, 13:28:43
- the UK government are framing it as only being a problem about customs checks and a border (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Oct 3, 13:11:36
- Of course it is but we were talking about the border and my point was (General Chat) - Jim, Oct 3, 11:47:56
- no, the spirit of the GFA is to allow for those that feel Irish to live in Norn Iron (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Oct 3, 11:44:48
- Fair point. It just annoys me when politicians throw about "its contrary to the GFA" when (General Chat) - Jim, Oct 3, 11:32:15
- see below (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Oct 3, 11:29:44
- In reality thought this is a different time then it was back then (General Chat) - KetteringRyu, Oct 3, 10:12:31
- though* (n/m) (General Chat) - KetteringRyu, Oct 3, 10:12:45
- By not affecting GFA i mean it was thrown out of the NI court. (n/m) (General Chat) - KetteringRyu, Oct 3, 10:21:09
- On the basis that it wasn't a matter for the courts but a matter between governments (General Chat) - mr carra, Oct 3, 10:27:23
- Which is why it doesn't affect the GFA as it is a Legal Document not a Political one. (n/m) (General Chat) - KetteringRyu, Oct 3, 11:16:51
- On the basis that it wasn't a matter for the courts but a matter between governments (General Chat) - mr carra, Oct 3, 10:27:23
- By not affecting GFA i mean it was thrown out of the NI court. (n/m) (General Chat) - KetteringRyu, Oct 3, 10:21:09
- though* (n/m) (General Chat) - KetteringRyu, Oct 3, 10:12:45
- How? (General Chat) - CWC, Oct 3, 09:38:41
- it effectively gives the DUP the ability to unilaterally change the status of Norn Iron (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Oct 3, 10:29:16
- Surely you just address that by saying that any Stormont vote is a simple majority? (General Chat) - Jim, Oct 3, 11:04:23
- imagine if May hadn't lost her majority and had to rely on the DUP... (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Oct 3, 11:26:24
- gotcha (General Chat) - CWC, Oct 3, 10:51:00
- i guess there's a hope from some tories that an election could solve that (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Oct 3, 11:15:19
- Surely you just address that by saying that any Stormont vote is a simple majority? (General Chat) - Jim, Oct 3, 11:04:23
- it effectively gives the DUP the ability to unilaterally change the status of Norn Iron (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Oct 3, 10:29:16
- No they don't. This nonsense should not have been allowed to be consistently (General Chat) - Jim, Oct 3, 10:52:52
- Bit disappointed there won't be crocodile infested moat on the Irish border though.😢 (n/m) (General Chat) - protheroe fitzgibbon, Oct 3, 08:30:29
- Or a moot (General Chat) - Tricky Hawes, Oct 3, 08:39:09
- Harsh but fair..😀 (n/m) (General Chat) - protheroe fitzgibbon, Oct 3, 08:48:58
- Or a moot (General Chat) - Tricky Hawes, Oct 3, 08:39:09
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