...and your point on on-the-ground reality vs what the contract says is absolutely key

No use whatsoever having a nice piece of paper if you look, smell and feel just like an employee.

End of the day if you really are an employee,

a) you need to pay your taxes
b) your employer needs to fund your employment rights (sick pay, holiday pay, training, yada)

Amusingly HMRC themselves just the other week lost a case when they tried to say one of their own workers should do (a) but HMRC were not prepared to cover (b).

The social contract for the self employed has always been different tax for different treatment. If the tax is ultimately to be the same, that goes for the treatment too, in particular with regard to employment rights.

Posted By: Old Man on October 17th 2018 at 21:42:29

Message Thread

Anyone ever set up a Ltd company before for contracting work? (General Chat) - Bungle, Oct 17, 20:40:39
- Since the change in IR35 we've seen many contractors/consultants walm away... (General Chat) - Worthing Yellow, Oct 17, 22:07:11
  - The change requires the hiring entity to take a view on the status - is that right? (General Chat) - Old Man, Oct 17, 22:11:33
    - The aim was to avoid any employment rights argument (General Chat) - Worthing Yellow, Oct 17, 22:37:00
      - But if they're inside IR35, why would they not get employment rights? (General Chat) - Old Man, Oct 17, 22:46:50
        
        Consultants on government frameworks aren't employees... (General Chat) - Worthing Yellow, Oct 17, 23:08:00
- It all depends on how much you think you’ll make (General Chat) - Tony Martin, Oct 17, 21:15:51
  - Exactly that^^ (n/m) (General Chat) - archroy, Oct 17, 22:09:25
  - Thanks Tony, with a bit of luck it should be good money. (n/m) (General Chat) - Bungle, Oct 17, 21:22:49
- Check out IPSE (General Chat) - Old Man, Oct 17, 21:11:19
  - Ugh, yeah it’s IT / InfoSec. Thanks OM. (n/m) (General Chat) - Bungle, Oct 17, 21:21:23
  - Crikey (General Chat) - Old Git, Oct 17, 21:13:00
    - Not quite what I said... (General Chat) - Old Man, Oct 17, 21:17:41
      - It’s an obvious fiddle (General Chat) - Old Git, Oct 17, 21:19:03
        
        it's only a fiddle if HMRC proves it (General Chat) - CWC, Oct 17, 21:25:58
        
        Definitely not Lord Templeman ... (n/m) (General Chat) - Old Git, Oct 17, 21:29:35
        
        What is? (General Chat) - Old Man, Oct 17, 21:23:41
        
        “HMRC tell people they owe tax the law simply does not say they owe“ (General Chat) - Old Git, Oct 17, 21:33:04
        
        If you go into a tax scheme you deserve everything you get (General Chat) - Old Man, Oct 17, 21:38:15
        
        Legitimately self employed (General Chat) - Old Git, Oct 17, 21:43:47
        
        The House of Lords didn't agree with you on that (General Chat) - Old Man, Oct 17, 21:51:24
        
        Well there you go (General Chat) - Old Git, Oct 17, 21:56:46
        
        Far from it (General Chat) - Old Man, Oct 17, 22:09:13
        
        Well (General Chat) - Old Git, Oct 17, 22:23:06
        
        And I don't think you can have one status for tax purposes and another for employee rights (General Chat) - Old Man, Oct 17, 22:26:19
        
        No he doesn’t (General Chat) - Old Git, Oct 17, 22:32:11
        
        My bad - thought he said he'd shared a pint with you at some point (n/m) (General Chat) - Old Man, Oct 17, 22:34:56
- Be careful (n/m) (General Chat) - Old Git, Oct 17, 20:53:41
  - Sorry premature send (General Chat) - Old Git, Oct 17, 21:05:19
  - Thanks OG (General Chat) - Bungle, Oct 17, 20:57:13
    - See above! (General Chat) - Old Git, Oct 17, 21:08:15
      - It’s that or the insolvency service! Thanks mate. (n/m) (General Chat) - Bungle, Oct 17, 21:10:58
  - fuck da HMRC (n/m) (General Chat) - Jumbo1, Oct 17, 20:57:08
- Meeky did this when he started out - not sure if he’s back from holiday but can DM him and (General Chat) - Jumbo1, Oct 17, 20:44:15
  - 👍 (n/m) (General Chat) - Bungle, Oct 17, 20:47:20
    - Too many words but may be relevant.... (General Chat) - Jumbo1, Oct 17, 20:52:34
      - I would especially pick out: (General Chat) - CWC, Oct 17, 20:59:00
        
        Employment law is very complex and there are few silver bullets (General Chat) - Old Man, Oct 17, 21:29:46
        
        yeah some interesting cases in the gig economy space at the moment (General Chat) - CWC, Oct 17, 21:36:20
        
        ...and your point on on-the-ground reality vs what the contract says is absolutely key (General Chat) - Old Man, Oct 17, 21:42:29
        
        tax and law. Best. Thread. Ever. (n/m) (General Chat) - CWC, Oct 17, 21:48:14
        
        Go on. Ask me about VAT and derogations. It's my party piece. (General Chat) - Old Man, Oct 17, 21:52:02
        
        Ha! (General Chat) - CWC, Oct 17, 21:58:10
        
        Ta CWC. (n/m) (General Chat) - Bungle, Oct 17, 21:02:42
        
        np (General Chat) - CWC, Oct 17, 21:18:17
        
        Nope that’s me... thanks much xx (n/m) (General Chat) - Bungle, Oct 17, 21:35:22

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