Come late to this but.......
...... also attended a grammar school, first generation to Uni from a mining family
....... went on to become a teacher, school adviser, Ofsted inspector and school governor.
Anecdotal evidence, even from personal experience, is a pretty useless base from which to extrapolate, make generalisations or use as evidence because there will always be people with opposite or different experiences. For instance: I thought I was jbeing brave going into teaching after the 'high jinks' at my grammar school and couldn't believe how passive most students were that I came across when teaching in comprehensives. I also remember that I was one of only five from my class of over 30 who 'passed' the 11 plus - I know the number passing was determined by the number of places in 'Grammars' versus 'Secondary Moderns' in my area rather than any absolute standard. The 11+'was a nonsense and questions very biased towards pupils whose parents could afford private tuition or other means for cramming. If you look at what happens in Kent and Bucks where they still have grammars, that is still the case.
As an Inspector I came across good and bad schools - the only one I helped put into special measures was a grammar, and I came across a lot of dedicated and brilliant teachers in all types of school. Good heads knew how to get rid of duff teachers, and also how to make their schools exciting places to learn, despite increasing curriculum constraints. Some headteachers didn't' and found excuses for not tackling problems. Leadership and management are crucial in giving all students the life chances they deserve. Grammars - and Academy's - game the system where they can. They try to make their job easier by selecting students, but someone still has to teach those they don't select.
To say Sutton Trust 'swamp the media' is tosh (I'm being polite). Their research is very rigorous - and they look at evidence rather than try to selectively fit facts to a pre-determined policy framework. Institute of Education and NFER similarly. Don't reject evidence based on research across many schools just because it doesn't accord with your experience - by all means question it and test it, but it's become too fashionable to reject 'experts'. Especially irritating is the interference of politicians - classic examples of amateur's bollocksing things up. They are in the process of taking education back to a very dark place - contrasting with the positive strides made, for instance in London comprehensives through the Challange programme in the noughties.
When even Michael Wilshaw is critical of a policy, the Tories really should take a long hard look at themselves. To bang on about parental choice is Alice in Wonderland language when describing a policy that will allow schools to choose their pupils. Throw in faith schools and 'public schools' and we are just going to entrench divisions and worsen social mobility. The policy is the exact opposite of what they should be doing if they wish to achieve their stated objectives.
Posted By: Tressells Broadbrush on September 9th 2016 at 19:01:27
Message Thread
- RE The Tories plans for schools (NCFC) - Larry Hagman, Sep 9, 13:44:23
- Some sweeping statements and assumptions in there. I take it you support Corbyn. (NCFC) - Basingstoke_Canary, Sep 9, 14:19:06
- Absolute tosh. Start to finish. (NCFC) - avenging canary, Sep 9, 15:21:46
- did say last night grammar schools to allow up to 25% from lower income families (NCFC) - Men without hats, Sep 9, 16:32:59
- Sweeping statements like "bog standard comprehensives" (NCFC) - phelans tash, Sep 9, 14:49:44
- Put it like this............................... (NCFC) - Larry Hagman, Sep 9, 14:44:36
- ...private company would have take money out of the school (NCFC) - Basingstoke_Canary, Sep 9, 15:10:15
- Some excellent points, however (NCFC) - Basingstoke_Canary, Sep 9, 15:05:27
- Come late to this but....... (NCFC) - Tressells Broadbrush, Sep 9, 19:01:27
- No words to describe how much I love this post. Thank you. (n/m) (NCFC) - avenging canary, Sep 10, 00:06:21
- Absolutely agree on bad teachers; My ex is a Compo Head Teacher....... (NCFC) - Kirrie, Sep 9, 16:04:54
- She needs to get better HR advice. (NCFC) - avenging canary, Sep 9, 17:28:51
- That's rubbish actually. (n/m) (NCFC) - Boris, Sep 9, 18:49:23
- You've obviously never been responsible for having to try and sack a bad teacher! (n/m) (NCFC) - Kirrie, Sep 9, 18:33:56
- Many, many times. (n/m) (NCFC) - avenging canary, Sep 9, 19:35:47
- She needs to get better HR advice. (NCFC) - avenging canary, Sep 9, 17:28:51
- So you are an unqualified failed state school teacher... (NCFC) - avenging canary, Sep 9, 15:24:32
- Its nigh oin impossiblt to get rid of bad teachers unless they are looking for a pay-off.. (NCFC) - Kirrie, Sep 9, 16:07:08
- Not in my experience. (NCFC) - avenging canary, Sep 9, 17:30:03
- Most d hooks have to and the Union almost always takes the teachers side. (n/m) (NCFC) - Kirrie, Sep 9, 18:35:17
- That's the job of the Union. But they're often not right. (NCFC) - avenging canary, Sep 9, 19:38:19
- Most heads ffs! (n/m) (NCFC) - Kirrie, Sep 9, 18:35:39
- Most d hooks have to and the Union almost always takes the teachers side. (n/m) (NCFC) - Kirrie, Sep 9, 18:35:17
- Not in my experience. (NCFC) - avenging canary, Sep 9, 17:30:03
- Teaching 30 years ago However my kids experince bad teachers every day (NCFC) - Basingstoke_Canary, Sep 9, 15:27:08
- From my own experience at least one year for 20 years. (NCFC) - avenging canary, Sep 9, 15:48:22
- Its nigh oin impossiblt to get rid of bad teachers unless they are looking for a pay-off.. (NCFC) - Kirrie, Sep 9, 16:07:08
- Comprehensives aren't being held up as some miracle cure though, Grammar schools are (NCFC) - Ralf Scrampton, Sep 9, 15:13:57
- Yes vthey are and they have been since the 60s when they were the reason to remove Grammar (n/m) (NCFC) - Basingstoke_Canary, Sep 9, 15:28:27
- at this moment in time the return to Grammar schools are being held up as a 'miracle cure' (n/m) (NCFC) - Ralf Scrampton, Sep 9, 15:51:30
- Yes vthey are and they have been since the 60s when they were the reason to remove Grammar (n/m) (NCFC) - Basingstoke_Canary, Sep 9, 15:28:27
- Come late to this but....... (NCFC) - Tressells Broadbrush, Sep 9, 19:01:27
- Excellent points (n/m) (NCFC) - colincanary, Sep 9, 14:47:23
- "Far more people got to University from lower class homes when Grammar schools existed" (NCFC) - Ralf Scrampton, Sep 9, 14:39:19
- Like the evidence that Comps have improved social mobility you mean? (n/m) (NCFC) - Basingstoke_Canary, Sep 9, 14:58:43
- i'm not the one making that claim. Do you have evidence to back you claim up please? (NCFC) - Ralf Scrampton, Sep 9, 15:11:02
- Personal experience:- first generation to go to Uni (NCFC) - Basingstoke_Canary, Sep 9, 15:25:12
- 8% eligible for free school meals in grammar school areas (NCFC) - Ralf Scrampton, Sep 9, 15:42:59
- Personal experience:- first generation to go to Uni (NCFC) - Basingstoke_Canary, Sep 9, 15:25:12
- i'm not the one making that claim. Do you have evidence to back you claim up please? (NCFC) - Ralf Scrampton, Sep 9, 15:11:02
- Like the evidence that Comps have improved social mobility you mean? (n/m) (NCFC) - Basingstoke_Canary, Sep 9, 14:58:43
- Absolute tosh. Start to finish. (NCFC) - avenging canary, Sep 9, 15:21:46
- Some sweeping statements and assumptions in there. I take it you support Corbyn. (NCFC) - Basingstoke_Canary, Sep 9, 14:19:06
Reply to Message
In order to add a post to the WotB Message Board you must be a registered WotB user.
If you are not yet registered then please visit the registration page. You should ensure that their browser is setup to accept cookies.