This is good but long. Worth it though.

User Posted Link

You might not be able to see a Facebook link but if not come back to it when you can. It's devoid of all the emotional blackmail that has permeated, awfully, all the debate.

For what it's worth I can see problems with the EU and things that need reforming BUT the biggest issue for me is that it's being used as a political football by a government that's fighting with itself. Anyone who thinks that leaving will cause anything other than several years (at least) of potentially very severe problems in our country is wrong, in my opinion. As for long term gains, what good are they for us who are here and now?

Posted By: APB on June 20th 2016 at 10:54:39

Message Thread

Still not sure which way to vote. Leave or Remain. So much nonsense and lies on both sides (General Chat) - Pit, Jun 20, 10:26:28
- FAO: undecideds - a nice brief quick fire question round to each side here (General Chat) - essexcanaryOTBC, Jun 20, 11:41:56
- all our best friends in the world strongly want us to remain (General Chat) - mr carra, Jun 20, 11:35:22
  - Balls to the best friends. What about Lenwade Dinosaur Park? (General Chat) - I Am Hoot, Jun 20, 11:55:45
    - Petits Animal Adventure Park (n/m) (General Chat) - essexcanaryOTBC, Jun 20, 12:23:00
- all our b (n/m) (General Chat) - mr carra, Jun 20, 11:33:57
- Remember: "an idea isn't responsible for the people who believes (General Chat) - dennis moore, Jun 20, 11:28:56
  - *believe* (n/m) (General Chat) - dennis moore, Jun 20, 11:29:41
- If you're Labour through and through you wouldn't vote remain (General Chat) - harry boulders, Jun 20, 10:57:56
  - You think we would become like Spain/Greece? We have our own currency btw (General Chat) - essexcanaryOTBC, Jun 20, 11:40:25
    - If we didn't, there would have been a U introduced in PIGS a few years back. It was that (General Chat) - Steve in Holland, Jun 20, 12:14:54
    - So it was good the EU bailed out Greece, in effect making everybody else pay for (General Chat) - harry boulders, Jun 20, 11:48:01
      - nah, they're paying for the crap banks that lent to them... (n/m) (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Jun 20, 12:10:41
        
        Banks/Bankers (excessive risk taking) broke the economy, not the EU, not migrants etc (General Chat) - essexcanaryOTBC, Jun 20, 12:20:22
        
        "Farage Is A Millionaire Banker" (General Chat) - essexcanaryOTBC, Jun 20, 12:24:16
  - and yet the Greek people would overwhelmingly vote to remain (General Chat) - mr carra, Jun 20, 11:32:44
    - that's not true - at least not for Spain (General Chat) - Mecagoenti, Jun 20, 11:39:16
      - it is always true that extremists on both sides want to leave and moderates to stay (General Chat) - mr carra, Jun 20, 11:42:17
        
        the left wing in Spain are not extremists (General Chat) - Mecagoenti, Jun 20, 11:45:33
        
        from an economic viewpoint the EU is more favourable to the working classes than the Torie (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Jun 20, 12:00:17
        
        absolutely; the fact that the debate has been comprehensively taken over (General Chat) - Mecagoenti, Jun 20, 12:04:13
        
        Johnson + co talk about regaining "control" (General Chat) - essexcanaryOTBC, Jun 20, 12:21:22
        
        i've just had the following tweeted into my timeline which you might find interesting (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Jun 20, 12:15:21
        
        thanks for that, is an interesting piece (General Chat) - Mecagoenti, Jun 20, 12:22:54
        
        Which is why most extremists want us to leave (General Chat) - essexcanaryOTBC, Jun 20, 11:44:00
  - EU =/= Euro (General Chat) - CWC, Jun 20, 11:08:25
    - EXACTLY! (n/m) (General Chat) - essexcanaryOTBC, Jun 20, 11:40:59
    - don't think they have deep structural problems (General Chat) - Mecagoenti, Jun 20, 11:22:20
      - They do/did have big problems with large scale tax avoidance. (General Chat) - APB, Jun 20, 13:20:19
        
        fair point (General Chat) - Mecagoenti, Jun 20, 13:57:50
    - Not to mention deep structural problems in them actually paying tax (n/m) (General Chat) - Steve in Holland, Jun 20, 11:18:35
- This is good but long. Worth it though. (General Chat) - APB, Jun 20, 10:54:39
  - Chairs. will read and think (n/m) (General Chat) - Pit, Jun 20, 11:30:30
    - Watch. It's a video (n/m) (General Chat) - Steve in Holland, Jun 20, 11:36:07
      - is there a non-video, written version? (n/m) (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Jun 20, 11:43:41
        
        Not that I've seen (n/m) (General Chat) - Steve in Holland, Jun 20, 12:50:42
  - Shared that. Cheers (n/m) (General Chat) - Steve in Holland, Jun 20, 11:26:53
  - the government get to borrow money cheaper now, based on those long term benefits (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Jun 20, 10:57:29
    - That's as maybe but I wasn't thinking of government (General Chat) - APB, Jun 20, 10:59:19
      - ok, the government spend money on and for normal people (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Jun 20, 11:08:06
    - debt repayment? interest is what i meant (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Jun 20, 10:58:25
- The UK has the best of both worlds at the moment................... (General Chat) - Larry Hagman, Jun 20, 10:51:55
  - Yes really makes no sense to leave other than an emotional sense of bravado (n/m) (General Chat) - Steve in Holland, Jun 20, 10:53:58
    - Cutting nose off to spite face? (General Chat) - essexcanaryOTBC, Jun 20, 11:44:54
    - there's a fair argument in terms of democratic accountability (General Chat) - CWC, Jun 20, 11:10:09
      - But what remain have managed to successfully bury is that even those (General Chat) - Jim, Jun 20, 11:15:39
        
        link please (n/m) (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Jun 20, 11:50:21
- Vote for the reasons to vote for, not the personalities. Vote remain. (n/m) (General Chat) - Steve in Holland, Jun 20, 10:45:50
  - Exactly this! Trying to vote based on personalities in this vote is futile, (General Chat) - I Am Hoot, Jun 20, 10:56:13
    - Its uncertainty causing this. nothing do do with in or out. (General Chat) - Pit, Jun 20, 11:10:36
      - Leave = Uncertainty, so yes you're right that it's uncertainty that's casuing this (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Jun 20, 11:56:04
      - No, it is all to do with 'confidence' in how the UK would be outside of the EU (n/m) (General Chat) - Larry Hagman, Jun 20, 11:17:11
        
        no. (n/m) (General Chat) - Pit, Jun 20, 11:23:45
        
        stock markets are a gamble based upon 'confidence' of what will happen in the future (n/m) (General Chat) - Larry Hagman, Jun 20, 11:44:15
        
        You're saying the same thing. Confidence = considerable degree of certainty. (n/m) (General Chat) - Steve in Holland, Jun 20, 12:10:49
      - Sure, I know what you're saying and you're right. (General Chat) - I Am Hoot, Jun 20, 11:16:39
    - We had a recession,that was worse than the impact being predicted if we leave..... (General Chat) - yellowman, Jun 20, 11:09:20
    - Lol the pound and stock market are up and down regardless (n/m) (General Chat) - harry boulders, Jun 20, 11:03:29
      - One thing i think it completely wrong is that the financial institutions are allowed to (General Chat) - Jim, Jun 20, 11:16:57
        
        Everyone knows the likely result is remain (General Chat) - SCC 28, Jun 20, 11:38:35
        
        I get the feeling that it has changed. Seriously. Have been investigating the cases for (General Chat) - Steve in Holland, Jun 20, 12:09:30
    - Punctuation. (General Chat) - I Am Hoot, Jun 20, 11:00:24
- There really is not a lot of certainties with a leave vote, despite what both sides claim (General Chat) - South_West_Canary, Jun 20, 10:43:31
  - Not to mention all of the expert economic bodies too! (n/m) (General Chat) - essexcanaryOTBC, Jun 20, 12:25:22
    - Cor yeah....forgot about them..... (General Chat) - yellowman, Jun 20, 13:00:09
  - several of them aren't being entirely honest .... (n/m) (General Chat) - paulg, Jun 20, 11:35:08
  - Because they see an end to the gravy train..... (General Chat) - yellowman, Jun 20, 10:50:34
    - Thats an odd one for me. Kinnock was a working class champion and now has his snout (General Chat) - Pit, Jun 20, 11:08:29
      - power corrupts (General Chat) - Mecagoenti, Jun 20, 11:32:11
      - Politics int ut?...... (General Chat) - yellowman, Jun 20, 11:13:02
        
        Robin Cook. One of the few politicians I ever had any respect for. (n/m) (General Chat) - Pit, Jun 20, 11:23:10
        
        Actually yes and John smith..... (General Chat) - yellowman, Jun 20, 11:25:45
        
        Agree. 3 good eggs. (n/m) (General Chat) - Pit, Jun 20, 11:30:50
    - You have a low opinion of ALL of them leaders? (n/m) (General Chat) - South_West_Canary, Jun 20, 10:52:25
      - Yep...... (General Chat) - yellowman, Jun 20, 10:56:09
        
        I think you do a lot of them leaders an injustice (n/m) (General Chat) - South_West_Canary, Jun 20, 10:57:28
        
        Ok... (General Chat) - yellowman, Jun 20, 11:03:13
        
        Corbyn isn't all misty eyed over Europe, but thinks it's the best option (General Chat) - South_West_Canary, Jun 20, 11:10:23
        
        Ok (n/m) (General Chat) - yellowman, Jun 20, 11:14:12
- When is the result announced? (General Chat) - Chris Peacock, Jun 20, 10:41:06
  - agreed, sick to fucking death of it now (General Chat) - Tombs, Jun 20, 10:50:49
- I have been firmly leave throughout the process but am having a last minute wobble (General Chat) - Jim, Jun 20, 10:33:00
  - The timing of anything is bad if you don't have a plan (n/m) (General Chat) - Steve in Holland, Jun 20, 10:47:04
    - But leave could never have a concrete plan because they will not necessarily (General Chat) - Jim, Jun 20, 11:12:50
  - I have been stay in but will now vote to leave, If I was selfish I would have to vote stay (General Chat) - lovely old job, Jun 20, 10:36:06
    - I've gone from stay to leave too. Heart over head decision for once (n/m) (General Chat) - Hulk Rules, Jun 20, 10:41:31
- You forgot our very own Ed Balls and Delia on remain side (n/m) (General Chat) - loz, Jun 20, 10:27:47

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