plenty of studies into rebound relationships etc

Generally speaking they are doomed to fail (and fail quickly) where the new [manager] is meant to be fixing the problems of the old one.

The whole narrative for the Farke/Smith change was "He's here to keep us up", and we all know how thing panned out, so Smith was scuppered (or set up to fail given the high benchmark set by Farke in terms of popularity and the low quality of the squad he had to work with).

By accident or design, the club has given Wagner a much wider 'purpose' beyond just getting us promoted and he has a much lower benchmark to be measured against (with a higher quality squad relative to peers).

Whether Smith could ever have been the right manager is a debate for another day, but it was certainly the wrong time for him here.

Hindsight is wonderful and it's easier said than done, but we'd have been so much better off running with an interim manager (or paying Smith as an interim) and re-assessing in the summer.

Posted By: CWC on March 6th 2023 at 13:32:30

Message Thread

Deansmith v Swagner (NCFC) - paulg, Mar 6, 08:10:28
- An equally interesting case study (NCFC) - Henclrikus, Mar 6, 11:23:35
  - 28% winrate and shitty football...... (NCFC) - usacanary, Mar 6, 17:03:53
    - Skewed by inheriting farke’s prem calamity (NCFC) - SCC 28, Mar 6, 17:14:40
      - oh I see......... (NCFC) - usacanary, Mar 6, 18:32:07
    - and the fact we looked unfit and unmotivated.... (NCFC) - usacanary, Mar 6, 17:05:30
  - Farke was bizarrely charismatic as well (NCFC) - APB, Mar 6, 14:16:48
    - All of which made it hard for Smith to be popular by comparison (NCFC) - APB, Mar 6, 14:29:24
  - plenty of studies into rebound relationships etc (NCFC) - CWC, Mar 6, 13:32:30
  - Expectations (NCFC) - SimonOTBC, Mar 6, 13:18:20
  - I thought that too,if they've got nothing else German coaches (NCFC) - protheroe fitzgibbon, Mar 6, 12:03:23
  - Loads of German coaches though (NCFC) - jamesward, Mar 6, 11:52:06
    - But do we agree that Wagner benefitted (NCFC) - Henclrikus, Mar 6, 12:17:50
      - The absolute reverse could be argued (NCFC) - usacanary, Mar 6, 17:08:11
      - Certainly easier for him to follow Smith than Farke, yes (n/m) (NCFC) - jamesward, Mar 6, 12:23:20
- Dean Smith wasn't as bad as made out and (NCFC) - Trent_Canary, Mar 6, 08:49:28
  - I agree he wasn't terrible but he was a bit "meh" and i'm not sure his heart was in it and (NCFC) - Jim, Mar 6, 09:20:16
    - VMT (NCFC) - SCC 28, Mar 6, 09:21:48
  - He really was... (NCFC) - ParrotPuncher, Mar 6, 09:13:04
  - VMT (n/m) (NCFC) - SCC 28, Mar 6, 09:01:55
- Averaging over 2 points a game under Wagner and whilst not always totally convincing (NCFC) - Jim, Mar 6, 08:48:40
  - We would have lost on Saturday, without doubt (NCFC) - SimonOTBC, Mar 6, 08:49:27
    - Why’s that then? (NCFC) - SCC 28, Mar 6, 09:05:36
      - Because Allan Russell would still have been in charge of set pieces (n/m) (NCFC) - jamesward, Mar 6, 09:08:18
        
        He still is isn't he? Mind you Hughes was Wagner's set peice coach at Hudds. In the (NCFC) - Jim, Mar 6, 09:22:14
        
        no, bust up over nutrition (NCFC) - CWC, Mar 6, 09:31:45
        
        Wasn’t at the game Saturday (NCFC) - SCC 28, Mar 6, 09:28:56
        
        We could at least defend them under him IIRC (NCFC) - SCC 28, Mar 6, 09:18:19
        
        Positive actions force errors (NCFC) - jamesward, Mar 6, 09:37:11
    - Not sure we got the team quite right on Saturday to be honest (NCFC) - Jim, Mar 6, 08:53:59
      - I agree with that (NCFC) - SimonOTBC, Mar 6, 08:55:18
        
        He improved a lot after half time (NCFC) - jamesward, Mar 6, 08:59:16
        
        Yes we must not try and shoehorn Sargent in. Same with Idah when Pukki is fit. (NCFC) - Jim, Mar 6, 09:17:59
        
        Yep (NCFC) - Cardiff Canary, Mar 6, 09:29:54
- We’ll never know (NCFC) - SimonOTBC, Mar 6, 08:35:59
- It’s nothing short of astonishing quite frankly (NCFC) - SCC 28, Mar 6, 08:35:04
  - The original post was about 'pleasure and confidence' around the team rather than results (n/m) (NCFC) - Adster, Mar 6, 10:00:11
    - The confidence is clearly based (n/m) (NCFC) - SCC 28, Mar 6, 10:02:19
      - on the results - as it should be (n/m) (NCFC) - SCC 28, Mar 6, 10:02:35
        
        Confidence that the team would continue winning was comparitively low. (NCFC) - Adster, Mar 6, 10:09:15
        
        Im not sure we’ll (n/m) (NCFC) - SimonOTBC, Mar 6, 13:19:27
        
        …continue to do as well in terms of PPG (NCFC) - SimonOTBC, Mar 6, 13:19:44
        
        Yes, much more like my point (NCFC) - paulg, Mar 6, 10:46:45
        
        Probably the case towards the end (n/m) (NCFC) - SCC 28, Mar 6, 11:22:59
        
        That winning run under Smith was characterised by both him (NCFC) - jamesward, Mar 6, 10:05:35
        
        Let’s not forget the expectations at that time (NCFC) - SCC 28, Mar 6, 10:09:09
        
        You ever thought about going into politics? (n/m) (NCFC) - jamesward, Mar 6, 10:11:02
        
        I don’t think my crime and punishment policies (NCFC) - SCC 28, Mar 6, 10:17:23
  - shut up shut up shut up (NCFC) - ghostof barry butler, Mar 6, 08:53:18
    - Mick doesn't attend any games and watches only through streams (NCFC) - ParrotPuncher, Mar 6, 09:09:42
    - Yep the narrative was certainly set wasn’t it… (n/m) (NCFC) - SCC 28, Mar 6, 09:08:34
      - So the narrative is what caused us to play shitty football.... (NCFC) - usacanary, Mar 6, 17:13:50
        
        No but as Webber said, the narrative was set (n/m) (NCFC) - SCC 28, Mar 6, 17:25:03
      - Narratives become narratives for a reason (n/m) (NCFC) - jamesward, Mar 6, 09:10:03
        
        but not always good ones (n/m) (NCFC) - SCC 28, Mar 6, 09:20:31
        
        You're not usually so self aware (NCFC) - Cardiff Canary, Mar 6, 09:37:35
        
        You mean the narrative Webber spoke of don’t you (NCFC) - SCC 28, Mar 6, 09:46:33
        
        Apols (NCFC) - Cardiff Canary, Mar 6, 10:04:43
        
        Oh he's totally self aware (NCFC) - Ken Dodds Dads Dog, Mar 6, 09:42:04
        
        Yep (NCFC) - Cardiff Canary, Mar 6, 10:02:25
        
        I find your endless shit triggering tbh (NCFC) - SCC 28, Mar 6, 10:04:09
        
        Nobody is better than me.... (NCFC) - usacanary, Mar 6, 17:22:33
        
        I didn’t back him when we went rubbish and I wanted him sacked (NCFC) - SCC 28, Mar 6, 17:26:47
        
        Should have gone to Watford and been given 9 games. (NCFC) - usacanary, Mar 6, 21:11:46
        
        Twas why I apologised (NCFC) - Cardiff Canary, Mar 6, 10:47:47
        
        Well I agree with many opinions on our recent managers (NCFC) - SCC 28, Mar 6, 11:05:15
        
        Oh blimey SCC! I'm not having that! CC apologised very nicely - at least twice with a (NCFC) - Bravo win or die, Mar 6, 10:15:58
        
        Ta BWOD (NCFC) - Cardiff Canary, Mar 6, 10:53:12
        
        I’d only seen one mention at the time (NCFC) - SCC 28, Mar 6, 10:24:55
  - Cardiff, Wigan and Hull suggested issues (NCFC) - 51eve, Mar 6, 08:46:05
    - Yes and I’m hopeful those issues will disappear under Wagner (NCFC) - SCC 28, Mar 6, 09:13:28
      - I actually thought we stood up well physically against Millwall (NCFC) - jamesward, Mar 6, 09:15:16
    - He was intent on playing a system we didn’t have the personnel for (n/m) (NCFC) - SimonOTBC, Mar 6, 08:48:54
  - Yes, I'm not quite sure the spreadsheet's capturing the whole truth, if I'm being honest (n/m) (NCFC) - paulg, Mar 6, 08:42:00
  - No doubt the performances are better though (NCFC) - SimonOTBC, Mar 6, 08:39:48
    - Players who weren't at the club last season needed time to settle into the squad (NCFC) - Ken Dodds Dads Dog, Mar 6, 08:46:44
      - Of course (NCFC) - SimonOTBC, Mar 6, 08:48:17
        
        Wish he’d specifically instruct players (NCFC) - SCC 28, Mar 6, 09:15:07
        
        Unfortunately that’s an ability issue (NCFC) - SimonOTBC, Mar 6, 11:20:37
        
        Hopefully we’ve got rid of it (NCFC) - SCC 28, Mar 6, 11:25:05
        
        VMT (NCFC) - jamesward, Mar 6, 08:56:42
    - Yes we’ve thankfully seen an improvement (NCFC) - SCC 28, Mar 6, 08:43:02
- Paging SCC. Paging SCC (NCFC) - Ken Dodds Dads Dog, Mar 6, 08:24:52
  - You know it (n/m) (NCFC) - SCC 28, Mar 6, 08:35:40
- I know it's assumptions, would of, should of, could of etc (NCFC) - seminated_woolly, Mar 6, 08:24:45
  - Did have quite a tricky run though (NCFC) - SCC 28, Mar 6, 08:40:41
    - Fair point (n/m) (NCFC) - seminated_woolly, Mar 6, 08:58:21
    - Yes, and we've had a relatively easy run on the whole under Wagner (NCFC) - jamesward, Mar 6, 08:45:33
      - Direction of travel and individual player performances (NCFC) - Cardiff Canary, Mar 6, 09:10:34

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