Deansmith v Swagner

Would be a nice little case study in group leadership/dynamics - how did the former manage to drain the pleasure and confidence from the team, and the latter regain it, and so quickly - however it's happening, it's v good to see (and only just in time)

Posted By: paulg on March 6th 2023 at 08:10:28

Message Thread

Deansmith v Swagner (NCFC) - paulg, Mar 6, 08:10:28
- An equally interesting case study (NCFC) - Henclrikus, Mar 6, 11:23:35
  - 28% winrate and shitty football...... (NCFC) - usacanary, Mar 6, 17:03:53
    - Skewed by inheriting farke’s prem calamity (NCFC) - SCC 28, Mar 6, 17:14:40
      - oh I see......... (NCFC) - usacanary, Mar 6, 18:32:07
    - and the fact we looked unfit and unmotivated.... (NCFC) - usacanary, Mar 6, 17:05:30
  - Farke was bizarrely charismatic as well (NCFC) - APB, Mar 6, 14:16:48
    - All of which made it hard for Smith to be popular by comparison (NCFC) - APB, Mar 6, 14:29:24
  - plenty of studies into rebound relationships etc (NCFC) - CWC, Mar 6, 13:32:30
  - Expectations (NCFC) - SimonOTBC, Mar 6, 13:18:20
  - I thought that too,if they've got nothing else German coaches (NCFC) - protheroe fitzgibbon, Mar 6, 12:03:23
  - Loads of German coaches though (NCFC) - jamesward, Mar 6, 11:52:06
    - But do we agree that Wagner benefitted (NCFC) - Henclrikus, Mar 6, 12:17:50
      - The absolute reverse could be argued (NCFC) - usacanary, Mar 6, 17:08:11
      - Certainly easier for him to follow Smith than Farke, yes (n/m) (NCFC) - jamesward, Mar 6, 12:23:20
- Dean Smith wasn't as bad as made out and (NCFC) - Trent_Canary, Mar 6, 08:49:28
  - I agree he wasn't terrible but he was a bit "meh" and i'm not sure his heart was in it and (NCFC) - Jim, Mar 6, 09:20:16
    - VMT (NCFC) - SCC 28, Mar 6, 09:21:48
  - He really was... (NCFC) - ParrotPuncher, Mar 6, 09:13:04
  - VMT (n/m) (NCFC) - SCC 28, Mar 6, 09:01:55
- Averaging over 2 points a game under Wagner and whilst not always totally convincing (NCFC) - Jim, Mar 6, 08:48:40
  - We would have lost on Saturday, without doubt (NCFC) - SimonOTBC, Mar 6, 08:49:27
    - Why’s that then? (NCFC) - SCC 28, Mar 6, 09:05:36
      - Because Allan Russell would still have been in charge of set pieces (n/m) (NCFC) - jamesward, Mar 6, 09:08:18
        
        He still is isn't he? Mind you Hughes was Wagner's set peice coach at Hudds. In the (NCFC) - Jim, Mar 6, 09:22:14
        
        no, bust up over nutrition (NCFC) - CWC, Mar 6, 09:31:45
        
        Wasn’t at the game Saturday (NCFC) - SCC 28, Mar 6, 09:28:56
        
        We could at least defend them under him IIRC (NCFC) - SCC 28, Mar 6, 09:18:19
        
        Positive actions force errors (NCFC) - jamesward, Mar 6, 09:37:11
    - Not sure we got the team quite right on Saturday to be honest (NCFC) - Jim, Mar 6, 08:53:59
      - I agree with that (NCFC) - SimonOTBC, Mar 6, 08:55:18
        
        He improved a lot after half time (NCFC) - jamesward, Mar 6, 08:59:16
        
        Yes we must not try and shoehorn Sargent in. Same with Idah when Pukki is fit. (NCFC) - Jim, Mar 6, 09:17:59
        
        Yep (NCFC) - Cardiff Canary, Mar 6, 09:29:54
- We’ll never know (NCFC) - SimonOTBC, Mar 6, 08:35:59
- It’s nothing short of astonishing quite frankly (NCFC) - SCC 28, Mar 6, 08:35:04
  - The original post was about 'pleasure and confidence' around the team rather than results (n/m) (NCFC) - Adster, Mar 6, 10:00:11
    - The confidence is clearly based (n/m) (NCFC) - SCC 28, Mar 6, 10:02:19
      - on the results - as it should be (n/m) (NCFC) - SCC 28, Mar 6, 10:02:35
        
        Confidence that the team would continue winning was comparitively low. (NCFC) - Adster, Mar 6, 10:09:15
        
        Im not sure we’ll (n/m) (NCFC) - SimonOTBC, Mar 6, 13:19:27
        
        …continue to do as well in terms of PPG (NCFC) - SimonOTBC, Mar 6, 13:19:44
        
        Yes, much more like my point (NCFC) - paulg, Mar 6, 10:46:45
        
        Probably the case towards the end (n/m) (NCFC) - SCC 28, Mar 6, 11:22:59
        
        That winning run under Smith was characterised by both him (NCFC) - jamesward, Mar 6, 10:05:35
        
        Let’s not forget the expectations at that time (NCFC) - SCC 28, Mar 6, 10:09:09
        
        You ever thought about going into politics? (n/m) (NCFC) - jamesward, Mar 6, 10:11:02
        
        I don’t think my crime and punishment policies (NCFC) - SCC 28, Mar 6, 10:17:23
  - shut up shut up shut up (NCFC) - ghostof barry butler, Mar 6, 08:53:18
    - Mick doesn't attend any games and watches only through streams (NCFC) - ParrotPuncher, Mar 6, 09:09:42
    - Yep the narrative was certainly set wasn’t it… (n/m) (NCFC) - SCC 28, Mar 6, 09:08:34
      - So the narrative is what caused us to play shitty football.... (NCFC) - usacanary, Mar 6, 17:13:50
        
        No but as Webber said, the narrative was set (n/m) (NCFC) - SCC 28, Mar 6, 17:25:03
      - Narratives become narratives for a reason (n/m) (NCFC) - jamesward, Mar 6, 09:10:03
        
        but not always good ones (n/m) (NCFC) - SCC 28, Mar 6, 09:20:31
        
        You're not usually so self aware (NCFC) - Cardiff Canary, Mar 6, 09:37:35
        
        You mean the narrative Webber spoke of don’t you (NCFC) - SCC 28, Mar 6, 09:46:33
        
        Apols (NCFC) - Cardiff Canary, Mar 6, 10:04:43
        
        Oh he's totally self aware (NCFC) - Ken Dodds Dads Dog, Mar 6, 09:42:04
        
        Yep (NCFC) - Cardiff Canary, Mar 6, 10:02:25
        
        I find your endless shit triggering tbh (NCFC) - SCC 28, Mar 6, 10:04:09
        
        Nobody is better than me.... (NCFC) - usacanary, Mar 6, 17:22:33
        
        I didn’t back him when we went rubbish and I wanted him sacked (NCFC) - SCC 28, Mar 6, 17:26:47
        
        Should have gone to Watford and been given 9 games. (NCFC) - usacanary, Mar 6, 21:11:46
        
        Twas why I apologised (NCFC) - Cardiff Canary, Mar 6, 10:47:47
        
        Well I agree with many opinions on our recent managers (NCFC) - SCC 28, Mar 6, 11:05:15
        
        Oh blimey SCC! I'm not having that! CC apologised very nicely - at least twice with a (NCFC) - Bravo win or die, Mar 6, 10:15:58
        
        Ta BWOD (NCFC) - Cardiff Canary, Mar 6, 10:53:12
        
        I’d only seen one mention at the time (NCFC) - SCC 28, Mar 6, 10:24:55
  - Cardiff, Wigan and Hull suggested issues (NCFC) - 51eve, Mar 6, 08:46:05
    - Yes and I’m hopeful those issues will disappear under Wagner (NCFC) - SCC 28, Mar 6, 09:13:28
      - I actually thought we stood up well physically against Millwall (NCFC) - jamesward, Mar 6, 09:15:16
    - He was intent on playing a system we didn’t have the personnel for (n/m) (NCFC) - SimonOTBC, Mar 6, 08:48:54
  - Yes, I'm not quite sure the spreadsheet's capturing the whole truth, if I'm being honest (n/m) (NCFC) - paulg, Mar 6, 08:42:00
  - No doubt the performances are better though (NCFC) - SimonOTBC, Mar 6, 08:39:48
    - Players who weren't at the club last season needed time to settle into the squad (NCFC) - Ken Dodds Dads Dog, Mar 6, 08:46:44
      - Of course (NCFC) - SimonOTBC, Mar 6, 08:48:17
        
        Wish he’d specifically instruct players (NCFC) - SCC 28, Mar 6, 09:15:07
        
        Unfortunately that’s an ability issue (NCFC) - SimonOTBC, Mar 6, 11:20:37
        
        Hopefully we’ve got rid of it (NCFC) - SCC 28, Mar 6, 11:25:05
        
        VMT (NCFC) - jamesward, Mar 6, 08:56:42
    - Yes we’ve thankfully seen an improvement (NCFC) - SCC 28, Mar 6, 08:43:02
- Paging SCC. Paging SCC (NCFC) - Ken Dodds Dads Dog, Mar 6, 08:24:52
  - You know it (n/m) (NCFC) - SCC 28, Mar 6, 08:35:40
- I know it's assumptions, would of, should of, could of etc (NCFC) - seminated_woolly, Mar 6, 08:24:45
  - Did have quite a tricky run though (NCFC) - SCC 28, Mar 6, 08:40:41
    - Fair point (n/m) (NCFC) - seminated_woolly, Mar 6, 08:58:21
    - Yes, and we've had a relatively easy run on the whole under Wagner (NCFC) - jamesward, Mar 6, 08:45:33
      - Direction of travel and individual player performances (NCFC) - Cardiff Canary, Mar 6, 09:10:34

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