Thanks for the civil tone - I appreciate it.
And thanks for sharing the two articles, which I read with interest.
If I'm honest, The Telegraph piece is really playing the man and not the ball, trying to make out that two expert researchers are total idiots, when evidently they are not. Of course you can disagree with increasing taxes on a certain group for all manner of reasons, but Arun's research is mostly focused on trying to understand what actually happens when you change some policy. What did people actually do when X happened? What money did we actually raise/lose? And using that information, what might we expect people to do if we did A, B and C?
I find it hard to accept that people would dismiss out of hand what they find by analysing actual tax returns. This is just helpful evidence isnt it? On the other hand, I find it totally reasonable to debate whether some given tax policy measure is "right" or "fair". And fully understand that people might reasonably disagree with me. But surely we have to accept what the evidence shows about what has happened, or we can't get anywhere?
The Telegraph also places a lot of weight on research with organisations with a clear vested interest in lower taxes on wealth and property. Henley & Partners are not neutral detached observers, and neither are Ashbridge Partners, so anything they publish needs to be filtered accordingly. Wealth management company defends interests of super wealthy is hardly news.
The article in The Week is much more balanced I would say, and does raise a series of legitimate questions about RR's proposed non-dom changes. FWIW, I would be surprised if RR sticks with all these initial plans on non-doms, and expect a compromise to emerge. I mean, does analysis suggest you can do whatever you like to non-doms and they'll suck it up....no, of course not. But equally, the suggestion that ANY change will cause a millionaire exodus is not true either. The world is messy and nuanced.
If I focus for a moment on the quotes from Arun included in that article, they dont indicate that he's a nutcase do they? "The only way to know about what non-doms are doing is to look at the tax data". "Late filing is particularly prevalent at the top of the income distribution," said Advani, because "the £100 late fee is not really that costly"." That sounds to me like a slightly boring researcher trying to get to the right answer? Having met him - he's not a Marxist. And he's not a nutter.
Posted By: Under soil heating on June 28th 2025 at 16:22:20
Message Thread
- NBTTT: The impossibility of taxing the rich (General Chat) - Under soil heating, Jun 28, 12:06:21
- I’m a raging capitalist, from the poorest (but loving) background you could imagine. (General Chat) - BINMEN8R, Jun 28, 17:24:52
- Most rich people have wealthy parents and families. Not all of course but most (n/m) (General Chat) - footymadman, Jun 28, 20:37:22
- Sorry, but that’s bullshit. (General Chat) - Snakepit Divorcee, Jun 28, 19:06:51
- A lot of these "hard working people" .... (General Chat) - usacanary, Jun 28, 21:43:34
- Read my post again. (General Chat) - Snakepit Divorcee, Jun 28, 23:22:12
- A lot of these "hard working people" .... (General Chat) - usacanary, Jun 28, 21:43:34
- I agree with that. Hard work and success shouldn't be punished. (n/m) (General Chat) - shoddy, Jun 28, 18:17:02
- Yep, same here. (n/m) (General Chat) - usacanary, Jun 28, 17:56:06
- I've known a few multi millionaires over the years (General Chat) - Men without hats, Jun 28, 18:06:20
- The problem with your friend Arun Advani (General Chat) - JoeyDeacon, Jun 28, 14:40:10
- Any argument can won with this method (General Chat) - Lentil Weaver, Jun 28, 15:55:07
- The entire Wrath is often a left wing echo chamber (n/m) (General Chat) - JoeyDeacon, Jun 28, 16:03:25
- Hahahahahahahahahahaha (n/m) (General Chat) - jamesward, Jun 28, 17:25:21
- You are joking? (General Chat) - Snakepit Divorcee, Jun 28, 17:01:02
- The entire Wrath is often a left wing echo chamber (n/m) (General Chat) - JoeyDeacon, Jun 28, 16:03:25
- Great to see how open minded you are JD. (General Chat) - Under soil heating, Jun 28, 15:05:18
- I will engage with you - and I don’t wish to come across as argumentative (General Chat) - JoeyDeacon, Jun 28, 15:24:39
- Oh, and to answer your question on what I do (General Chat) - Under soil heating, Jun 28, 16:28:36
- I guessed it was finance related (General Chat) - JoeyDeacon, Jun 28, 16:33:53
- Understood, and totally respected! (n/m) (General Chat) - Under soil heating, Jun 28, 16:37:22
- I guessed it was finance related (General Chat) - JoeyDeacon, Jun 28, 16:33:53
- Thanks for the civil tone - I appreciate it. (General Chat) - Under soil heating, Jun 28, 16:22:20
- I think as human beings we always attach ourselves to views that mirror our own (General Chat) - JoeyDeacon, Jun 28, 16:43:11
- As a CS I'd just like to say re: pensions (General Chat) - Cardiff Canary, Jun 28, 17:22:36
- I have both a private pension and a civil service final salary. (General Chat) - Men without hats, Jun 28, 18:24:04
- Well I didnt think I'd ever find myself saying this, but... (General Chat) - Under soil heating, Jun 28, 16:50:37
- Enjoyed it - thank you too (n/m) (General Chat) - JoeyDeacon, Jun 28, 16:56:13
- As a CS I'd just like to say re: pensions (General Chat) - Cardiff Canary, Jun 28, 17:22:36
- I think as human beings we always attach ourselves to views that mirror our own (General Chat) - JoeyDeacon, Jun 28, 16:43:11
- Oh, and to answer your question on what I do (General Chat) - Under soil heating, Jun 28, 16:28:36
- I will engage with you - and I don’t wish to come across as argumentative (General Chat) - JoeyDeacon, Jun 28, 15:24:39
- thats embarrassing (n/m) (General Chat) - ghostof barry butler, Jun 28, 14:54:17
- It is, but not for the reasons you think. (n/m) (General Chat) - Under soil heating, Jun 28, 15:05:41
- Any argument can won with this method (General Chat) - Lentil Weaver, Jun 28, 15:55:07
- Who do you count as rich? How would you set a wealth tax? (General Chat) - Kangol Canary, Jun 28, 14:31:15
- I do agree I think the leaving bit may be overblown but .. (General Chat) - usacanary, Jun 28, 14:28:05
- Would you start a business in a country with a wealth tax? (n/m) (General Chat) - paulg, Jun 28, 16:07:51
- It’s strange that the target of certain people’s resentment is rich people (General Chat) - JoeyDeacon, Jun 28, 14:44:36
- Everyone needs to ask whether they're contributing (General Chat) - paulg, Jun 28, 16:08:55
- Years ago there was a stigma in being a non contributor (n/m) (General Chat) - JoeyDeacon, Jun 28, 16:17:30
- There was a time (General Chat) - paulg, Jun 28, 16:23:50
- Before Thatcher destroyed our manufacturing industry (n/m) (General Chat) - jamesward, Jun 28, 16:52:17
- Shame there are so few jobs opportunities available nowadays (n/m) (General Chat) - paulg, Jun 28, 18:07:52
- Before Thatcher destroyed our manufacturing industry (n/m) (General Chat) - jamesward, Jun 28, 16:52:17
- There was a time (General Chat) - paulg, Jun 28, 16:23:50
- Years ago there was a stigma in being a non contributor (n/m) (General Chat) - JoeyDeacon, Jun 28, 16:17:30
- Everyone needs to ask whether they're contributing (General Chat) - paulg, Jun 28, 16:08:55
- Good questions (General Chat) - Under soil heating, Jun 28, 14:41:29
- There are many companies out there .. (General Chat) - usacanary, Jun 28, 17:03:26
- “The Great Millionaire Migration (That Mostly Didn't Happen)” (General Chat) - Tombs, Jun 28, 13:19:23
- THIS (General Chat) - Kev, Jun 28, 15:25:21
- The post I should have written (n/m) (General Chat) - Under soil heating, Jun 28, 14:03:09
- So this defo won't presumably (General Chat) - paulg, Jun 28, 13:27:46
- Not sure that link worked... (General Chat) - paulg, Jun 28, 13:33:18
- Are there any examples of it having been used successfully? (n/m) (General Chat) - paulg, Jun 28, 13:03:32
- Many (General Chat) - SenatusAcademicus, Jun 28, 13:28:37
- Higher tax or wealth tax? (n/m) (General Chat) - paulg, Jun 28, 13:31:28
- USA post war was income (n/m) (General Chat) - Legacy Fan, Jun 28, 14:13:43
- Income tax. 91% too bracket 😳. (n/m) (General Chat) - Legacy Fan, Jun 28, 14:14:11
- Post war countries are very different (General Chat) - paulg, Jun 28, 16:06:27
- Income tax. 91% too bracket 😳. (n/m) (General Chat) - Legacy Fan, Jun 28, 14:14:11
- USA post war was income (n/m) (General Chat) - Legacy Fan, Jun 28, 14:13:43
- Higher tax or wealth tax? (n/m) (General Chat) - paulg, Jun 28, 13:31:28
- Many (General Chat) - SenatusAcademicus, Jun 28, 13:28:37
- The Invisible Doctrine by George Monibot is also worth reading on the topic as a whole. (General Chat) - SenatusAcademicus, Jun 28, 12:28:53
- Too many words (General Chat) - Augustus Pablo, Jun 28, 12:15:33
- I’m a raging capitalist, from the poorest (but loving) background you could imagine. (General Chat) - BINMEN8R, Jun 28, 17:24:52
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