...you're saying it was "fired by mistake".

That's the part I don't get. From all I know about such systems, you can't fire them "by mistake".

They certainly targeted a civilian plane by mistake. But I think they meant to target the plane they saw on the radar, and I think that because of what they themselves communicated on social media and elsewhere before hurriedly deleting it when it became clear that they'd made a terrible mistake.

I hold no brief for the Ukrainian government; some of them and some of their friends really aren't very nice at all.

But Russia has just nicked part of their country and is agitating to nick some more. The people who fired that missile are part of that. If they're mercenaries, Putin is probably paying the bill. If they're not, Putin is certainly arming and encouraging them. Many countries use special forces under cover as mercenaries, of course.

So I'm afraid I don't agree that it was fired by mistake and neither can I see it in political terms as anyone's fault but Putin's. As I said at the time, I imagine he was beyond furious when it happened - he certainly wouldn't have wanted it to and certainly would have seen the consequences. He personally did not give the fire order nor did anyone close to him. But it's still, ultimately, on him, at least in terms of the geopolitics. As I say, none of which is to shower love on Ukraine's government.

Posted By: Old Man on July 23rd 2014 at 17:28:53

Message Thread

Re Ukraine; ther's alot of sanctimonious, hypocritical pish being spouted by..... (General Chat) - Kirrie, Jul 23, 16:01:01
- FFS, you are so wrong. (General Chat) - Old Man, Jul 23, 17:20:15
  - Cheers OM (n/m) (General Chat) - Kirrie, Jul 23, 17:44:26
    - Always happy to help (General Chat) - Old Man, Jul 23, 17:45:49
- Good stuff. They can get back on with invading Europe now. (n/m) (General Chat) - Ben, Jul 23, 16:29:35
- you are correct it was captured from Ukraine Army (General Chat) - Tony Martin, Jul 23, 16:07:05
  - They didn't deliberately lauch the missile and they weren't trained by Russians to use it (General Chat) - Kirrie, Jul 23, 16:11:45
    - thats alright then (General Chat) - ghostof barry butler, Jul 23, 16:16:15
      - thats pretty shocking (General Chat) - robotbear, Jul 23, 19:05:51
      - You said something funny (General Chat) - norway, Jul 23, 16:25:24
        
        plenty more of that (General Chat) - ghostof barry butler, Jul 23, 16:28:11
      - I wasn't making light of it and neither should you, 298 people died FFS.... (General Chat) - Kirrie, Jul 23, 16:21:24
        
        Surely the "vested" political interests, USA apart possibly, (General Chat) - CB41, Jul 23, 16:33:40
        
        Absolutely, anyone other than Russia, and the UN would have been on them like a ton of (General Chat) - Vivid Data Shark, Jul 23, 16:37:19
        
        Not realyy, they'd all like to see Ukraine in the EU and NATO ultimately! (n/m) (General Chat) - Kirrie, Jul 23, 16:37:04
        
        I think they'd reather see their economic and energy interest with (General Chat) - CB41, Jul 23, 16:41:32
        
        you set your self up (General Chat) - ghostof barry butler, Jul 23, 16:27:23
        
        Take it or leave it, your loss, don't feel the need to justify myself to you! (n/m) (General Chat) - Kirrie, Jul 23, 16:31:05
        
        you might one day (n/m) (General Chat) - ghostof barry butler, Jul 23, 16:31:34
        
        Erm.....NO! (n/m) (General Chat) - Kirrie, Jul 23, 16:37:23
        
        Ha Ha (General Chat) - ghostof barry butler, Jul 23, 16:52:16
      - rofl (n/m) (General Chat) - Tony Martin, Jul 23, 16:19:35
      - Lol (n/m) (General Chat) - CB41, Jul 23, 16:17:50
    - haha if you believe that you'll believe anything (n/m) (General Chat) - Tony Martin, Jul 23, 16:13:24
      - You believe what you want, but don't prejudge a situation (General Chat) - Kirrie, Jul 23, 16:24:12
        
        I will tell you what I know (General Chat) - emmaroyds, Jul 23, 16:35:43
        
        It doesn't take much skill to fire a point and shoot missile.... (General Chat) - Kirrie, Jul 23, 16:44:23
        
        yeah I know (General Chat) - emmaroyds, Jul 23, 16:49:20
        
        you cant get much more reliable (General Chat) - Tony Martin, Jul 23, 16:30:49
        
        You are correct about the BUK, but many of the 'separatists' are mercenaries...... (General Chat) - Kirrie, Jul 23, 16:35:50
        
        But you said a minute ago (General Chat) - Tricky Hawes, Jul 23, 18:40:03
        
        Also, if it was a captured Ukraine one, wouldn't it be tied into their traffic control (General Chat) - CB41, Jul 23, 16:35:49
        
        Not without the Command vehicle, no it wouldn't. (n/m) (General Chat) - Kirrie, Jul 23, 16:39:32
        
        Ah. What puzzles me is, if they mistook it for a Ukrainian transport plane, why on earth (General Chat) - CB41, Jul 23, 16:43:46
        
        Without the command vehicle whose radar has an IFF capability (General Chat) - Kirrie, Jul 23, 16:49:00
        
        ...you're saying it was "fired by mistake". (General Chat) - Old Man, Jul 23, 17:28:53
        
        In that the rebels were trying to find out for themselves how the system worked.... (General Chat) - Kirrie, Jul 23, 17:41:24
        
        Well on that we do agree (General Chat) - Old Man, Jul 23, 17:43:58
        
        ...and on a technical point, wouldn't the radar even from one vehicle give altitude? (n/m) (General Chat) - Old Man, Jul 23, 17:36:04
        
        Unless its a 3D radar no it wouldn't, you require the IFF information from... (General Chat) - Kirrie, Jul 23, 17:42:27
        
        Can't you tell from how long the signal takes to get back to you? (n/m) (General Chat) - Old Man, Jul 23, 17:45:35
        
        Not with raw radar data no, all you get is a contact on the screen.... (General Chat) - Kirrie, Jul 23, 17:49:17
  - Well, I have to admit, having no (General Chat) - CB41, Jul 23, 16:10:38
    - Don't fret (General Chat) - ghostof barry butler, Jul 23, 16:13:05

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