I don't really see how I reworded it...

You said that they don't accept that 'some of it works' where they actually do accept that some does appear to work.

My only point is that what we call 'science' doesn't know everything.

That report was significant in changing perspectives towards CAM within medicine leading to more medical trials etc. The problem was before if you showed any interest you could ruin you career.

There are now lots of double blind trials, including for arncia. I just did a search which retrieved 195 abstacts including this one from last year.

Efficacy of Arnica montana D4 for Healing of Wounds After Hallux Valgus Surgery Compared to Diclofenac

Objective: This study was undertaken to answer the question: 'Is Arnica D4 as efficacious as diclofenac in relation to symptoms and wound healing after foot surgery?' Methods: In this randomized double-blinded, parallel-group study (GCP-standard), the efficacy of Arnica D4 10 pillules (taken orally, 3 times per day) and diclofenac sodium, 50 mg (taken orally, 3 times per day) were investigated for equivalence in 88 patients 4 days after hallux valgus surgery. Outcome parameters were (1) postoperative irritation, (2) patient mobility, (3) rated pain, and (4) use of analgesics. The hierarchic equivalence test based on one-sided Wilcoxon-Mann-Whitney-U confidence intervals (CIs) was used. Equivalence was perceived, when the lower margin of the 95% CI was >0.36 corresponding to a range of equivalence of 1/2 standard deviation. Results: Arnica D4 and diclofenac were equivalent for wound irritation (lower margin of the 95% CI on day 4: 0.4729 for rubor; 0.3674 for swelling; 0.4106 for calor) and patient mobility (0.4726). A descriptive analysis showed the superiority of Arnica D4 with respect to patient mobility (p = 0.045).With respect to pain, Arnica D4 was inferior to diclofenac (lower margin of the 95% CI 0.026). No significant differences were found regarding the use of additional analgesics during the 4 postoperative days (Dipidolor,Reg. Janssen-Cilag, Neuss, Germany; p = 0.54; Tramal,Reg. Grunenthal, Aachen, Germany; p = 0.1; and Novalgin,Reg. AVENTIS-Pharma, Bad Soden, Germany; p = 0.1). Arnica D4 was significantly better tolerated than diclofenac (p = 0.049). Nine (9) patients (20.45%) of the diclofenac group and 2 (4.5%) of the Arnica D4 group reported intolerance. There was no disturbance in wound healing in any of the patients. Arnica D4 is 60% cheaper than diclofenac. Conclusions: After foot operations, Arnica D4 can be used instead of diclofenac to reduce wound irritation.

Posted By: Cart Gap Disco on June 2nd 2009 at 11:09:53

Message Thread

"What is it? Magic? Witchcraft? A load of twaddle?" (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Jun 2, 09:47:02
- Yeah but (General Chat) - Cart Gap Disco, Jun 2, 09:59:19
  - Oh and the House of Lords report you link to doesn't 'accept that some of it works' at all (General Chat) - Tricky Hawes, Jun 2, 10:47:05
    - I think you'll find it does (General Chat) - Cart Gap Disco, Jun 2, 10:53:39
      - haha. I love your re-wording (General Chat) - Tricky Hawes, Jun 2, 10:57:03
        
        I don't really see how I reworded it... (General Chat) - Cart Gap Disco, Jun 2, 11:09:53
  - Herbal medicine: the stuff that works just gets called "medicine". (General Chat) - Arizona Bay, Jun 2, 10:41:51
  - if it really does work then it'd stop being alternative medicine and just become medicine (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Jun 2, 10:09:12
    - Yeah but (General Chat) - Cart Gap Disco, Jun 2, 10:31:50
      - "There is no doubt that some herbal remedies do work as anyone who has used arnica on thei (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Jun 2, 10:41:25
        
        Yeah but (General Chat) - Cart Gap Disco, Jun 2, 11:14:49
        
        "much conventional thought starts at the margin of society and becomes mainstream over tim (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Jun 2, 11:36:40
        
        Whisky is the most popular of the cold remedies that don't work. (n/m) (General Chat) - Arizona Bay, Jun 2, 10:43:56
      - hmmmm (General Chat) - Tricky Hawes, Jun 2, 10:37:35

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