It must be right that the single most important factor for Hitler losing

was the invasion of Russia. (Though it may have been a necessary gamble given the resources he was consuming, and that there was little prospect of getting those resources other than from the Ukraine. And you could also argue that the Battle of Britain and the failure to establish air power over England pushed him to look east.)

But even after he was weakened by the eastern front, if we hadn't had US supplies, men, aircraft and money, we'd have had it. And of course his position against the Russians was hugely weakened by the fact that he had to keep fighting us - on the west coast of Europe, in Africa, in Italy. So Stalin would have faced a much stronger opponent.

Posted By: Old Git on March 6th 2007 at 11:30:47

Message Thread

Good morning true fans of Norwich City (NCFC) - Nigel_Worthington, Mar 6, 10:21:35
- its been good to see the offers flooding in eh Nige? (n/m) (NCFC) - bobble, Mar 6, 10:37:13
- a little bit like America (NCFC) - pants, Mar 6, 10:29:11
  - It's only gone wrong for the rest of us (NCFC) - Steve in Holland, Mar 6, 10:44:39
    - It has had some side benefits for us too (NCFC) - Old Git, Mar 6, 10:58:18
      - If it wasn't for the Yanks, hitler wouldn't have had such capability (n/m) (NCFC) - pants, Mar 6, 11:07:17
        
        Gus, don't embarrass yourself by joining in when the grown ups are talking (NCFC) - Old Git, Mar 6, 11:12:40
        
        haha, the Yanks needed a Nazi germany to pile money into to get over the Wall Street Crash (NCFC) - pants, Mar 6, 11:18:32
        
        He's been watching Robert Newman ^^^^^^ (NCFC) - Steve in Holland, Mar 6, 11:20:30
        
        I got an education Steve (n/m) (NCFC) - pants, Mar 6, 11:22:29
        
        Sorry, hadn't thought of that. (n/m) (NCFC) - Steve in Holland, Mar 6, 11:24:01
        
        I gathered (n/m) (NCFC) - pants, Mar 6, 11:24:13
      - More Stalin than the Yanks (n/m) (NCFC) - Steve in Holland, Mar 6, 11:00:43
        
        Don't be silly (NCFC) - Old Git, Mar 6, 11:02:26
        
        Nah. I'd be Comrade Steve. (n/m) (NCFC) - Steve in Holland, Mar 6, 11:05:14
        
        Isn't it more likely that without US support, and Britain probably falling, (NCFC) - Old Git, Mar 6, 11:15:12
        
        would be my take (NCFC) - megson, Mar 6, 11:21:37
        
        "Near the end" meaning 1941 ? (NCFC) - Steve in Holland, Mar 6, 11:25:34
        
        well yes fair point (NCFC) - megson, Mar 6, 11:29:14
        
        This is my point though. US didn't (NCFC) - Steve in Holland, Mar 6, 11:32:12
        
        I don't agree, because you underestimate how much stronger Germany would have been (NCFC) - Old Git, Mar 6, 11:34:54
        
        Do you enjoy custard? (n/m) (NCFC) - Brandonio, Mar 6, 11:39:25
        
        Surreal moment of the day so far (n/m) (NCFC) - Old Git, Mar 6, 11:41:16
        
        haha (NCFC) - Brandonio, Mar 6, 11:44:43
        
        Yes, but I don't think I do. (NCFC) - Steve in Holland, Mar 6, 11:38:58
        
        Excellent idea (NCFC) - Old Git, Mar 6, 11:40:42
        
        to a point... (NCFC) - Brandonio, Mar 6, 11:51:06
        
        Exactly... (NCFC) - Steve in Holland, Mar 6, 11:44:50
        
        I think that's what Joe was expecting after they carved up Poland, but I (NCFC) - Steve in Holland, Mar 6, 11:19:25
        
        It must be right that the single most important factor for Hitler losing (NCFC) - Old Git, Mar 6, 11:30:47
        
        I think that's an argument which we'll never know the answer to, although (NCFC) - Steve in Holland, Mar 6, 11:35:43
        
        We never will, fortunately. By the way, the US was in on our side from 1941 onwards (NCFC) - Old Git, Mar 6, 11:39:18
        
        Yeah well they didn't do much fighting there did they ? (n/m) (NCFC) - Steve in Holland, Mar 6, 11:45:31
        
        We were there too (NCFC) - Old Git, Mar 6, 11:51:10
        
        "Their money" ? (n/m) (NCFC) - Steve in Holland, Mar 6, 11:55:00
        
        and the american volunteers (NCFC) - megson, Mar 6, 11:53:50
        
        Poles (n/m) (NCFC) - Steve in Holland, Mar 6, 11:55:47
        
        and that would of gone better for the germans (NCFC) - megson, Mar 6, 11:24:28
        
        Although the Americans didn't join that until 1943 (NCFC) - Steve in Holland, Mar 6, 11:29:27
        
        which (as OG says above) stalled him (NCFC) - megson, Mar 6, 11:33:24
        
        Here we go again. (NCFC) - Arizona Bay, Mar 6, 11:02:26
        
        Fuck's sake. Not allowed an opinion ? (NCFC) - Steve in Holland, Mar 6, 11:06:07
        
        you never back up the ridiculous accusations of things I've said (n/m) (NCFC) - pants, Mar 6, 11:13:30
        
        Ha ha. That didn't take long (NCFC) - Steve in Holland, Mar 6, 11:15:42
        
        I knew you'd "get your back for yesterday". I'm happy to point out facts though (NCFC) - pants, Mar 6, 11:19:57
        
        What yesterday ? (n/m) (NCFC) - Steve in Holland, Mar 6, 11:21:30
        
        I'm having a very busy day today. (NCFC) - Sanctimony Police, Mar 6, 11:11:54
        
        You are pants and I claim my £5 (NCFC) - Old Git, Mar 6, 11:11:52
        
        = "Sorry, I just can't help being a cunt" (n/m) (NCFC) - Arizona Bay, Mar 6, 11:10:56
        
        No I'm not sorry! Come on then, let's get your theory. (n/m) (NCFC) - Steve in Holland, Mar 6, 11:13:00
        
        Please indicate where I have ever suggested that I have a theory. (NCFC) - Arizona Bay, Mar 6, 11:16:57
        
        That one will do. Expand. (n/m) (NCFC) - Steve in Holland, Mar 6, 11:20:49

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