NBTT: pragmatism

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Pragmatism and we can't 4-3-3 in the Prem are things I say a lot so I guess I'll answer :-)

Firstly I think APB is bang on re athleticism (and also doping FWIW I reckon there's a big story to come out there at some point).

To a degree I also agree that it's not about "philosophy". What I mean by pragmatism is a less rigid adherence to One True Way To Football and a recognition that fluidity of tactics, opportunism within individual games and so on are really important.

If we got promoted there is no system that would be "good" for us but I do think attempting 4-3-3 against even the likes of Everton, Wolves, West Ham and so on is visibly doomed from the get go, because realistically we are simply not going to have the players to execute that at Prem level.

I think a double pivot really helps, not just when "they" have the ball but also as an outball when we're playing out (which I think we should do, just not all the time in the same slow, ponderous way). But let's not substitute another One True Way for 4-3-3.

I guess what I'm driving at is that if we were to go up there is no obvious route to staying up. The scum model - overpay to "upgrade" your chumps players to other chump players - predictably and actually failed. So did our last go which was basically have a go with what got you up and boost infrastructure. I've floated taking just the spine to prem-level players but that's expensive and risky, both in-season and after if you've gone down. I'm not sure what the answer is.

I do however think what the answer isn't is to try to play a style which we're clearly not going to be able to execute. I'm not saying let's go agriculturally crazy but the odd long ball and route one move has to be part of the mix. We're not going to be able to out-technique anyone from about 15th place up and probably from about 17th place up. So we need another way to do it.

This is why I don't like the idea of Ljinders. He is well known for favouring tactical players over athletic ones and rigidity within a system. He sounds like someone with a great theoretical model which hasn't always survived contact with reality. It's that ability to react, in-game and pre-game, to reality, plus the ability to knit a team into something greater than the sum of its parts (which Lambert certainly managed), that we need.

For me Ljinders would be another JHT style appointment - a theory of football that fits with BK's theory of football but while we need to start with some theory or idea of how to organise ourselves in games we really, really need to be adaptable in and between games in a pragmatic way, and also get more out of the group than the sum of those individuals.

Not sure much of this lengthy drivel makes sense but I've done it now so wevs.

Posted By: Old Man on May 21st 2025 at 11:55:13

Message Thread

NBTT: pragmatism (Other Football) - Old Man, May 21, 11:55:13
- Its strange that a coach like Dyche doesn't get a mention or any respect. (Other Football) - usacanary, May 21, 13:36:34
- Any tactic CAN work in the PL (Other Football) - mr carra, May 21, 12:58:43
  - 0-1-9? (n/m) (Other Football) - SimonOTBC, May 21, 13:04:29
- We need an experienced manager, club is wobbling a bit - needs steadiness (Other Football) - Goosebumps, May 21, 12:58:13
  - We need experience period at the club.... (Other Football) - usacanary, May 21, 13:29:34
- We need a system that works in the championship to get us promoted (Other Football) - SimonOTBC, May 21, 12:21:02
  - Or being good at defending....Burnley....Sheff Utd..... (n/m) (Other Football) - usacanary, May 21, 13:30:29
    - Burnley also the league's third top scorers, tbf (Other Football) - SimonOTBC, May 21, 13:36:56
      - I think you need a higher quality squad for that to be successful (Other Football) - usacanary, May 21, 13:47:55
  - I think that tactical flexibility / pragmatism are key (Other Football) - Knitted Jesus, May 21, 12:25:30
    - I wouldn't worry too much about the philosophy bit (Other Football) - SimonOTBC, May 21, 12:38:45
    - The club have NOW put too much emphasis on pretty football (Other Football) - Knitted Jesus, May 21, 12:33:33
      - On the wagner point.... (Other Football) - SimonOTBC, May 21, 12:40:07
        
        Was that because of the tactics though? (Other Football) - mr carra, May 21, 12:56:18
        
        You're right that you can't look at one in isolation of the other (Other Football) - SimonOTBC, May 21, 13:03:51
      - What are you having for lunch? (n/m) (Other Football) - jamesward, May 21, 12:34:06
        
        Cypriot Halloimu and Pesto Little Lattices (Other Football) - Knitted Jesus, May 21, 12:37:22
        
        No, you should be fixing the tyre yourself... (n/m) (Other Football) - jamesward, May 21, 12:46:10
        
        Hmm true (Other Football) - Knitted Jesus, May 21, 13:13:35
- Not idealism. (Other Football) - Under soil heating, May 21, 12:04:47
  - That said, and in respect of your actual point (Other Football) - Under soil heating, May 21, 12:12:43
    - Even Man City are a shadow of the team when you take out Rodri (n/m) (Other Football) - jamesward, May 21, 12:18:30
      - That and de Bruyne being past his best. (Other Football) - mr carra, May 21, 13:01:35

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