In some ways it's a distinction without a difference...

...but I suspect because the allegation is that Epstein forced her to have sex with Andrew, not that Andrew forced her to have sex against her will. So from Andrew's perspective the alleged act, if it happened, was consensual because she was willing to do it. But she was only willing to do it because Epstein allegedly "forced" - or paid - her to do it.

Either way if she had sex without her consent it's rape in my book, and the lawyers can argue over semantics if they care to. And if she was 17, whether she was paid or not is not really the point. Honestly, you know if someone actually wants to or not, and if they don't and you go ahead anyway you're the worst kind of scum.

I have an extremely low opinion of Andrew - like most in the business world - however this whole thing seems unlikely at first glance. But that doesn't mean it's untrue, and the allegation needs to be taken seriously and vigorously pursued. One of the reasons so few sexual assaults are reported is a reluctance to believe the accuser, which means two things: every allegation needs to be taken with the utmost seriousness, and those who claim it when it's not true are among the lowest of the low, because in fact they're perpetuating a culture of acceptable sexual violence by normalising the idea that the accuser may be lying.

I have no idea if Virginia Andrews is lying or not. But I do find it difficult to conceive of Andrew - puffed-up, ineffective idiot though I think he is - as a rapist. All said and done, though, she said he did and that needs to be properly, seriously, thoroughly chased down.

Posted By: Old Man on January 22nd 2015 at 20:06:57

Message Thread

Regarding the prince of helicopters, why do the news keep saying "forced to have sex with" (General Chat) - Arizona Bay, Jan 22, 19:56:14
- In some ways it's a distinction without a difference... (General Chat) - Old Man, Jan 22, 20:06:57
  - Great post OM. Thank you (n/m) (General Chat) - Bravo win or die, Jan 22, 20:33:16
    - It's not semantics though (General Chat) - Old Git, Jan 22, 21:11:30
      - So... (General Chat) - Old Man, Jan 22, 21:31:53
        
        Yes (n/m) (General Chat) - Old Git, Jan 22, 21:42:21
        
        Good heavens. The law really is an ass. (General Chat) - Old Man, Jan 22, 22:04:04
        
        I'm afraid we must agree to disagree (General Chat) - Old Git, Jan 22, 22:14:11
        
        I'm thinking more from B's perspective. (General Chat) - Old Man, Jan 22, 22:18:51
        
        Of course it's about C!!! (General Chat) - Old Git, Jan 22, 22:29:24
        
        ...but you'd agree B is the victim, right? (n/m) (General Chat) - Old Man, Jan 22, 22:34:41
        
        B has been victimised by A (General Chat) - Old Git, Jan 22, 22:38:21
        
        Wow. That's really interesting, and feels wrong. (General Chat) - Old Man, Jan 22, 22:42:04
        
        She would certainly feel violated (General Chat) - Old Git, Jan 22, 23:00:02
        
        She would certainly have been violated (General Chat) - Old Man, Jan 22, 23:09:57
        
        Just did. Gawd. (n/m) (General Chat) - Old Man, Jan 22, 23:04:21
- i think there is a difference if DoY didn't know she was forced into having sex with him (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Jan 22, 19:59:40
  - ^^^ that is - there's a difference in perception? (n/m) (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Jan 22, 20:04:54
    - Reasonable belief in consent is a defence (n/m) (General Chat) - Old Git, Jan 22, 21:04:56

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