how do you surrender when you've been given no notice?
also there was no detonator and the bomb wasn't armed and a by-stander was grazed by a bullet that went through one of the IRA members
"It does not appear that there was any discussion at the briefing as to the likely size, mode of activation or range of a remote-control device that might be expected. The soldiers appear to have received information at their own briefings. Soldier F did not know the precise size a radio detonator might be, but had been told that the device would be small enough to conceal on the person. Soldier D was told that the device could come in a small size and that it could be detonated by the pressing of just one button."
"At the inquest Soldier G was described as being the bomb-disposal adviser. He had experience of dealing with car bombs in Northern Ireland but at the inquest he stated in reply to various questions that he was neither a radio-communications expert nor an explosives expert."
"The Court notes that at the briefing on 5 March attended by Soldiers A, B, C, and D it was considered likely that the attack would be by way of a large car bomb. A number of key assessments were made. In particular, it was thought that the terrorists would not use a blocking car; that the bomb would be detonated by a radio-control device; that the detonation could be effected by the pressing of a button; that it was likely that the suspects would detonate the bomb if challenged; that they would be armed and would be likely to use their arms if confronted (see paragraphs 23-31 above).
207. In the event, all of these crucial assumptions, apart from the terrorists' intentions to carry out an attack, turned out to be erroneous. Nevertheless, as has been demonstrated by the Government, on the basis of their experience in dealing with the IRA, they were all possible hypotheses in a situation where the true facts were unknown and where the authorities operated on the basis of limited intelligence information.
208. In fact, insufficient allowances appear to have been made for other assumptions. For example, since the bombing was not expected until 8 March when the changing of the guard ceremony was to take place, there was equally the possibility that the three terrorists were on a reconnaissance mission. While this was a factor which was briefly considered, it does not appear to have been regarded as a serious possibility (see paragraph 45 above). "
" It is further disquieting in this context that the assessment made by Soldier G, after a cursory external examination of the car, that there was a "suspect car bomb" was conveyed to the soldiers, according to their own testimony, as a definite identification that there was such a bomb (see paragraphs 48, and 51-52 above). It is recalled that while Soldier G had experience in car bombs, it transpired that he was not an expert in radio communications or explosives; and that his assessment that there was a suspect car bomb, based on his observation that the car aerial was out of place,"
"In the absence of sufficient allowances being made for alternative possibilities, and the definite reporting of the existence of a car bomb which, according to the assessments that had been made, could be detonated at the press of a button, a series of working hypotheses were conveyed to Soldiers A, B, C and D as certainties, thereby making the use of lethal force almost unavoidable"
Posted By: Ralf Scrampton on December 16th 2014 at 15:26:05
Message Thread
- Despite protestations from The Guardian, it appears the attack was ISIS related (General Chat) - phrankin, Dec 16, 12:55:33
- Much more interesting is the #illridewithyou response from ordinary Aussies (General Chat) - Old Man, Dec 16, 15:25:22
- Ordinary Aussies were also taking selfies at the scene (n/m) (General Chat) - SCC 28, Dec 16, 16:31:06
- Precisely (General Chat) - norway, Dec 16, 15:26:30
- ISIS is far less an organised terrorist network than we are accustomed to (General Chat) - phrankin, Dec 16, 16:12:17
- No (General Chat) - norway, Dec 16, 16:14:16
- Oh I agree (General Chat) - phrankin, Dec 16, 16:20:55
- No (General Chat) - norway, Dec 16, 16:14:16
- ISIS is far less an organised terrorist network than we are accustomed to (General Chat) - phrankin, Dec 16, 16:12:17
- Your utter fixation with The Guardian is hilarious... (n/m) (General Chat) - Yellalee, Dec 16, 13:40:27
- i could wander into the pub just down the road and start punching people in the face, (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Dec 16, 13:08:51
- No but.... (General Chat) - Cheltenham_Canary, Dec 16, 13:17:38
- it's not a question of whether he'd accumulated enough naughty points to be left off Santa (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Dec 16, 13:22:53
- 2 people are dead FFS you utter cretin! (n/m) (General Chat) - Pit, Dec 16, 14:52:32
- crikey! you've decided to break your sabbatical for the sake of not understanding what has (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Dec 16, 15:30:47
- Yep, Been lightly monitoring the board for a few weeks but (General Chat) - Pit, Dec 16, 15:32:52
- and it's over something you've failed to understand too. (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Dec 16, 15:46:37
- Oh well (General Chat) - Pit, Dec 16, 16:06:53
- you seem to have confused me with Phrankin (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Dec 16, 16:14:08
- actually all I was stating was (General Chat) - phrankin, Dec 16, 16:23:54
- so you don't understand the difference between an opinion piece and their news articles? (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Dec 16, 16:27:25
- News articles (are meant to) report facts (General Chat) - phrankin, Dec 16, 16:41:18
- so you don't understand the difference between an opinion piece and their news articles? (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Dec 16, 16:27:25
- ok (n/m) (General Chat) - Pit, Dec 16, 16:20:26
- actually all I was stating was (General Chat) - phrankin, Dec 16, 16:23:54
- Except that (General Chat) - norway, Dec 16, 16:12:52
- ok (n/m) (General Chat) - Pit, Dec 16, 16:21:17
- I'm sure the apology will be in the post... (n/m) (General Chat) - Yellalee, Dec 16, 16:20:09
- you seem to have confused me with Phrankin (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Dec 16, 16:14:08
- Oh well (General Chat) - Pit, Dec 16, 16:06:53
- Oh well (n/m) (General Chat) - CB41, Dec 16, 15:37:26
- and it's over something you've failed to understand too. (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Dec 16, 15:46:37
- Yep, Been lightly monitoring the board for a few weeks but (General Chat) - Pit, Dec 16, 15:32:52
- crikey! you've decided to break your sabbatical for the sake of not understanding what has (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Dec 16, 15:30:47
- He was known to the police..... (General Chat) - Cheltenham_Canary, Dec 16, 13:29:44
- righto Chelts, righto... (n/m) (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Dec 16, 13:34:21
- These cunts dont deserve more than... (General Chat) - Cheltenham_Canary, Dec 16, 13:36:06
- you're going soft in your old age Chelts, only 15 minutes ago you were denying 'them' the (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Dec 16, 13:42:32
- No i wasnt.... (General Chat) - Cheltenham_Canary, Dec 16, 13:45:03
- no Chelts, the soldier that shot 1st admitted to not shouting any warning beforehand (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Dec 16, 13:58:18
- Right to drop them. (General Chat) - Cheltenham_Canary, Dec 16, 14:08:31
- yes, they were there with a bomb and with all intention of exploding it (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Dec 16, 14:17:35
- Here.... (General Chat) - Cheltenham_Canary, Dec 16, 14:24:08
- how do you surrender when you've been given no notice? (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Dec 16, 15:26:05
- A gun is pulled.... (General Chat) - Cheltenham_Canary, Dec 16, 16:23:52
- the SAS did not identify themselves as the 'authorities' (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Dec 16, 20:56:26
- A gun is pulled.... (General Chat) - Cheltenham_Canary, Dec 16, 16:23:52
- Plus..... (General Chat) - Cheltenham_Canary, Dec 16, 15:03:27
- whatevs Chelts (n/m) (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Dec 16, 15:27:31
- Anyway.... (General Chat) - Cheltenham_Canary, Dec 16, 16:35:23
- Ignore him Chelts, He's probably still giving Hitler the benefit of the doubt. (n/m) (General Chat) - Pit, Dec 16, 15:06:42
- That's not how I am reading it. (n/m) (General Chat) - Pit, Dec 16, 15:22:57
- But you're calling him a 'terrorist sympathiser' (General Chat) - norway, Dec 16, 15:25:12
- An Apologist... (n/m) (General Chat) - phrankin, Dec 16, 16:06:00
- Sorry but I don't agree. And its a toucy subject for me as a work pal died in 9/11 (n/m) (General Chat) - Pit, Dec 16, 15:29:38
- But you're calling him a 'terrorist sympathiser' (General Chat) - norway, Dec 16, 15:25:12
- ? (General Chat) - norway, Dec 16, 15:21:56
- That's not how I am reading it. (n/m) (General Chat) - Pit, Dec 16, 15:22:57
- whatevs Chelts (n/m) (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Dec 16, 15:27:31
- how do you surrender when you've been given no notice? (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Dec 16, 15:26:05
- Here.... (General Chat) - Cheltenham_Canary, Dec 16, 14:24:08
- yes, they were there with a bomb and with all intention of exploding it (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Dec 16, 14:17:35
- Right to drop them. (General Chat) - Cheltenham_Canary, Dec 16, 14:08:31
- no Chelts, the soldier that shot 1st admitted to not shouting any warning beforehand (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Dec 16, 13:58:18
- No i wasnt.... (General Chat) - Cheltenham_Canary, Dec 16, 13:45:03
- you're going soft in your old age Chelts, only 15 minutes ago you were denying 'them' the (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Dec 16, 13:42:32
- These cunts dont deserve more than... (General Chat) - Cheltenham_Canary, Dec 16, 13:36:06
- righto Chelts, righto... (n/m) (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Dec 16, 13:34:21
- Criminals and the mentally unhinged can be members of ISIS too you know... (n/m) (General Chat) - phrankin, Dec 16, 13:24:40
- what does membership even mean in this case. (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Dec 16, 13:31:41
- Member of / acting in the name of..... (General Chat) - Cheltenham_Canary, Dec 16, 13:33:45
- what does membership even mean in this case. (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Dec 16, 13:31:41
- 2 people are dead FFS you utter cretin! (n/m) (General Chat) - Pit, Dec 16, 14:52:32
- it's not a question of whether he'd accumulated enough naughty points to be left off Santa (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Dec 16, 13:22:53
- what does connection even mean in this case (General Chat) - phrankin, Dec 16, 13:10:53
- righto, in which case i'm calling you a fuckwit in the name of ISIS (n/m) (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Dec 16, 13:15:02
- Can we have a terrorist sympathiser filter please. (n/m) (General Chat) - Pit, Dec 16, 14:46:43
- You really are one mother fucking weirdo mate (n/m) (General Chat) - CB41, Dec 16, 15:38:52
- Thanks for your support. (n/m) (General Chat) - Pit, Dec 16, 15:39:41
- ^potd, lol! (n/m) (General Chat) - Cheltenham_Canary, Dec 16, 16:48:41
- Thanks for your support. (n/m) (General Chat) - Pit, Dec 16, 15:39:41
- You really are one mother fucking weirdo mate (n/m) (General Chat) - CB41, Dec 16, 15:38:52
- But you don't subscribe to their beliefs (n/m) (General Chat) - phrankin, Dec 16, 13:24:11
- Can we have a terrorist sympathiser filter please. (n/m) (General Chat) - Pit, Dec 16, 14:46:43
- righto, in which case i'm calling you a fuckwit in the name of ISIS (n/m) (General Chat) - Ralf Scrampton, Dec 16, 13:15:02
- No but.... (General Chat) - Cheltenham_Canary, Dec 16, 13:17:38
- No it doesn't, not yet (n/m) (General Chat) - Adster, Dec 16, 13:06:09
- Much more interesting is the #illridewithyou response from ordinary Aussies (General Chat) - Old Man, Dec 16, 15:25:22
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