Which is the lie and which is the truth?
So what do we have?
We have at least 3 accounts of the shooting:
1. "He immediately stood up and advanced towards me and the CO19 officers ... I grabbed the male in the denim jacket by wrapping both my arms around his torso, pinning his arms to his side. I then pushed him back on to the seat where he had been previously sitting ... I then heard a gun shot very close to my left ear and was dragged away on to the floor of the carriage."
2. "Within a few seconds I saw a man coming into the double doors to my left. He was pointing a small black handgun towards a person sitting opposite me. He pointed the gun at the right hand side of the man's head. The gun was within 12 inches of the man's head when the first shot was fired."
(both from the "leaked" documents - quoted here: User Posted Link
3. "He looked absolutely petrified and then he sort of tripped, but they were hotly pursuing him, couldn't have been any more than two or three feet behind him at this time and he half tripped and was half pushed to the floor and the policeman nearest to me had the black automatic pistol in his left hand. He held it down to the guy and unloaded five shots into him."
(here:User Posted Link )
At least 2 of these accounts MUST be false - might all be false of course.
And then we have this picture of the aftermath:
User Posted Link
Now does that look like a man who has been shot in his seat (whether restrained or not), or does it look like someone who has been tripped as he ran and then shot? Looks like the latter to me.
And now here's another thing:
"The dead man, killed at Stockwell tube station on Friday after fleeing from armed police, was named as 27-year-old Jean Charles de Menezes. His body was identified by Alex Pereira, a cousin who lives in London and who afterwards told The Observer: 'I can't believe they shot him, because he was not a terrorist. He was an honest man.
'We are still too shocked to talk about it. But I am sure he didn't do anything wrong. It was not right for the police to do that.'
Pereira said that the most upsetting part of identifying his cousin was 'to see bullet wounds in his back and his neck when I went to the mortuary in Greenwich.'"
(User Posted Link )
Well the problem is obvious - the man in the picture clearly has NOT been shot in the back - not if he was wearing that coat. And anyway, surely if you were identifying a body that had been shot once in the shoulder and seven times in the head surely the head wounds would be the most upsetting.
There is a hell of a lot of misinformation and covering up going on - but it seems to me that Whitby's account of the shooting, and Pereira's account of the body are broadly consistent - and neither of them has an axe to grind.
It seems to me that this leaker is not interested in the integrity of the enquiry - but is desperately trying to protect someone's back. Whose?
Posted By: Winged Eel Creosote on August 18th 2005 at 01:35:21
Message Thread
- How can Charles Clarke says the shooting of Mr de Menezes (General Chat) - Brandonio, Aug 18, 00:32:03
- If one wanted to talk in ruthless terms it appears that the team that did (General Chat) - oh arr, Aug 18, 02:19:51
- As William Burroughs once said, a paranoiac is someone who knows all the facts. (General Chat) - Ottosson Foxtrot, Aug 18, 00:42:28
- Anyone who listens to William Burroughs .... (General Chat) - roywallerslovechild, Aug 18, 00:47:07
- Yes please! (General Chat) - Ottosson Foxtrot, Aug 18, 00:49:36
- FWIW... (General Chat) - Arganth, Aug 18, 01:17:01
- And ... (General Chat) - Ottosson Foxtrot, Aug 18, 01:18:45
- I read Naked Luch abot once every seven or eight months or so. (General Chat) - roywallerslovechild, Aug 18, 00:54:15
- Missing 'n's and premature 'enter'. (General Chat) - roywallerslovechild, Aug 18, 00:56:32
- Lol - maybe I'll go back to Burroughs (General Chat) - Ottosson Foxtrot, Aug 18, 00:57:54
- I firmly believe that you can only really appreciate Bill ... (General Chat) - roywallerslovechild, Aug 18, 01:10:41
- Lol - maybe I'll go back to Burroughs (General Chat) - Ottosson Foxtrot, Aug 18, 00:57:54
- Missing 'n's and premature 'enter'. (General Chat) - roywallerslovechild, Aug 18, 00:56:32
- FWIW... (General Chat) - Arganth, Aug 18, 01:17:01
- Yes please! (General Chat) - Ottosson Foxtrot, Aug 18, 00:49:36
- Anyone who listens to William Burroughs .... (General Chat) - roywallerslovechild, Aug 18, 00:47:07
- I'm not sure the truth has come out (General Chat) - Clare, Aug 18, 00:37:52
- good post Clare (n/m) (General Chat) - oh arr, Aug 18, 02:21:48
- well said (n/m) (General Chat) - SCC 26, Aug 18, 00:41:19
- nah aint gonna happen... (General Chat) - Brandonio, Aug 18, 00:40:20
- hardly fair though? (General Chat) - Kabaddi Holt, Aug 18, 00:41:26
- and if guy blows himself up (General Chat) - SCC 26, Aug 18, 00:43:41
- but why make up he was wearing a bulky jacket when he wasn't?... (General Chat) - Brandonio, Aug 18, 00:45:06
- Personally I don't know what he was wearing... (General Chat) - Clare, Aug 18, 00:51:08
- what do you think? (n/m) (General Chat) - SCC 26, Aug 18, 00:53:17
- You only have to look at the pictures today to decide... (General Chat) - Brandonio, Aug 18, 00:55:27
- Ahh, I haven't seen any photos (General Chat) - Clare, Aug 18, 00:57:39
- Well CCTV footage apparently shows him... (General Chat) - Brandonio, Aug 18, 01:00:44
- Ahh, I haven't seen any photos (General Chat) - Clare, Aug 18, 00:57:39
- You only have to look at the pictures today to decide... (General Chat) - Brandonio, Aug 18, 00:55:27
- what do you think? (n/m) (General Chat) - SCC 26, Aug 18, 00:53:17
- cos thats the police for you (n/m) (General Chat) - pants, Aug 18, 00:50:03
- to be fair to em (General Chat) - SCC 26, Aug 18, 00:51:23
- you forgot a FACT there, poor form. (n/m) (General Chat) - Kabaddi Holt, Aug 18, 00:53:07
- but it was a serious post (General Chat) - SCC 26, Aug 18, 00:54:06
- you forgot a FACT there, poor form. (n/m) (General Chat) - Kabaddi Holt, Aug 18, 00:53:07
- to be fair to em (General Chat) - SCC 26, Aug 18, 00:51:23
- but it wasnt made up by BBC etc (General Chat) - Kabaddi Holt, Aug 18, 00:46:22
- indeed (General Chat) - SCC 26, Aug 18, 00:46:08
- I think Brandy's point is that the government has been brazenly lying to us ... (General Chat) - Ottosson Foxtrot, Aug 18, 00:47:49
- but what can be done? (General Chat) - Kabaddi Holt, Aug 18, 00:49:19
- Would love to debate this but I'm supposed to be doing my dissertation (General Chat) - Ottosson Foxtrot, Aug 18, 00:52:39
- people in power always lie (General Chat) - SCC 26, Aug 18, 00:49:12
- Which is why I can never trust them (n/m) (General Chat) - Brandonio, Aug 18, 00:49:54
- no one trusts MPs! (n/m) (General Chat) - Kabaddi Holt, Aug 18, 00:50:24
- Yeh but I don't trust my manager... (General Chat) - Brandonio, Aug 18, 00:53:13
- No offence but (General Chat) - romayellow, Aug 18, 08:28:05
- Yourself? (General Chat) - Clare, Aug 18, 00:58:39
- Nah... (General Chat) - Brandonio, Aug 18, 01:04:23
- So thats not equal then (General Chat) - Clare, Aug 18, 09:06:34
- Nah... (General Chat) - Brandonio, Aug 18, 01:04:23
- Yeh but I don't trust my manager... (General Chat) - Brandonio, Aug 18, 00:53:13
- no one trusts MPs! (n/m) (General Chat) - Kabaddi Holt, Aug 18, 00:50:24
- Which is why I can never trust them (n/m) (General Chat) - Brandonio, Aug 18, 00:49:54
- but what can be done? (General Chat) - Kabaddi Holt, Aug 18, 00:49:19
- ah yes that though will possibly be alot worst news (n/m) (General Chat) - Brandonio, Aug 18, 00:47:10
- I think Brandy's point is that the government has been brazenly lying to us ... (General Chat) - Ottosson Foxtrot, Aug 18, 00:47:49
- Personally I don't know what he was wearing... (General Chat) - Clare, Aug 18, 00:51:08
- but why make up he was wearing a bulky jacket when he wasn't?... (General Chat) - Brandonio, Aug 18, 00:45:06
- and if guy blows himself up (General Chat) - SCC 26, Aug 18, 00:43:41
- hardly fair though? (General Chat) - Kabaddi Holt, Aug 18, 00:41:26
- Go Clare... (General Chat) - LeonTheNinjaTurtle, Aug 18, 00:39:52
- Sounds like the police restrained him before they shot him, from the report. (General Chat) - Ottosson Foxtrot, Aug 18, 00:35:51
- Which is the lie and which is the truth? (General Chat) - Winged Eel Creosote, Aug 18, 01:35:21
- very interesting post Creosote and quite right to think about the motive behind the leak (n/m) (General Chat) - oh arr, Aug 18, 02:26:35
- The whole story when it broke made no sense to me... (General Chat) - Brandonio, Aug 18, 00:42:46
- then IMHO (General Chat) - SCC 26, Aug 18, 00:44:54
- You know 'idiots'? (n/m) (General Chat) - LeonTheNinjaTurtle, Aug 18, 00:43:41
- Idiots (General Chat) - Winged Eel Creosote, Aug 18, 01:52:30
- did they somehow think body belt ????? As you say wheres the rucksack ? (n/m) (General Chat) - oh arr, Aug 18, 02:28:24
- Idiots (General Chat) - Winged Eel Creosote, Aug 18, 01:52:30
- Which is the lie and which is the truth? (General Chat) - Winged Eel Creosote, Aug 18, 01:35:21
- Re: why? (General Chat) - roywallerslovechild, Aug 18, 00:35:03
- Should be "Re: how?" (General Chat) - roywallerslovechild, Aug 18, 00:36:47
- OK..neck on the line time... (General Chat) - LeonTheNinjaTurtle, Aug 18, 00:34:59
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