Interesting thread from the official site ...

I've copied and pasted it as a lot of you aren't registered.

This is the question I would most like answering from last night. Put simply and clearly it's this:

What is the financial position regarding the money available for transfer activity this term?

As a follow up. If it's not, that we have at least a couple of ?Mill lying around (so to speak-parachute, Helveg, Johnson etc) WHERE THE HELL HAS THIS MONEY GONE?

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Norwich City FC @ 19-JUL-05 12:37 PM NEW Reply
Hi symonbrum,

How's the golf game at the mo?

This was indeed one of the points raised last night. As I recall Neil saying at the time, it would be wrong for us to make public the amount of money we have available for transfers. This can put us at a disadvantage when trying to negotiate deals.

However, as you rightly say, all the money saved from transfer fees and wages from the likes of Svensson, Jonson and Helveg - plus any others that may leave before the beginning of the season (Gallacher for example, who has been made available for transfer) will go into the transfer budget. Every single penny.

It's also important to remember a large portion of the parachute payment has already been spent on the purchase of Dean Ashton - a deal which could potentially rise to ?4m - four times the Club's previous record transfer.

We are also expected to make a considerable loss in terms of income on last season, which does not strengthen our financial position.

However, as has been said, all money raised by wheeling and dealing in the transfer market will be ploughed back into it.

Money is available to Nigel, but it could be said the players we need at the moment are not. But that is not to say the situation may not change as the weeks progress and clubs begin to feel more comfortable letting players go.

I suspect the SWP transfer to Man City has finally started the transfer ball rolling and we are now likely to see more activity cascading down from the top. We will just have to watch this space.

James Bigg


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SKIP @ 19-JUL-05 01:08 PM NEW Reply
Its obvious we will not have as much income as last season because of lack of TV money but as far as income goes there will be more income from the supporters as ticket prices have gone up and average crowd figures will increase because of the infil creating more revenue this year,on top of this players wage bill will be less as they are on Championship wages now so if the club cant turn those figures into a profit there is something amiss on the part of the financial department.

OTBC

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symonbrum @ 19-JUL-05 01:13 PM NEW Reply
All very fair points James. However...

Loss of income: Well apart from the fact that quite possibly Plymouth will not generate as much incremantal business for the club as Man U did last year, season tickets are sold out, new members restricted and virtually every home game I guarantee will be sold out again this year, I would suggest there is a bit of a gap in your argument there.

Dean Ashton being funded by this years money? Really? What happenned to last years money then and the massive ease of burden from the Watling write off and the massive income generated from me and all the other exiles not being able to get to all the sold out games last season?

I do take on board what you say James and unfortunately as I was not at the meeting last night, I will have to go with it for now, but I would be lying if I were to say that I was truly comfortable with our lack of spend thus far.

Look forward to seeing what gem Nigel unveils in the next couple of weeks.

The golf is going OK, better than the trouncing I hear you took from Mr Gunn a few weeks back? ;-)

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Norwich City FC @ 19-JUL-05 01:38 PM NEW Reply
Sadly, there is no pot of gold. As was discussed last night, we don't have an emergency source of cash to dive into at a moment's notice.

You talk about our lack of spend so far, but you also have to look at other teams' transfer activity this summer. Very few clubs have over stretched themselves so far, with many having a bigger deficit of players leaving than coming in - and this includes the likes of Crystal Palace and certainly Southampton.

The transfer market is slow at the moment, and that is generally down to the fact most clubs are still undecided who they want to keep/sell/loan. As I've already mentioned and as was discussed last night, it usually takes one large transfer to kick off the merry-go-round, and the Wright-Phillips move may now be the catalyst for that, with the effect hopefully cascading down to the Championship.

We said at the time Dean Ashton's purchase was a combination of borrowing against the following season's income and also the money raised from the non-redemption of B preference shares. Let's also not forget the considerable outlay on transfers at the start of the season, payment of bonuses, increase in wages etc. Promotion to the Premiership brings its own expenses, as well as rewards. Very few teams in the past have found themselves sitting on a fortune after relegation. Even West Brom had limited funds after coming down and spending relatively little during the first season in the Premiership.

We do indeed have sell-out crowds every match, but we also have to contend with the financial realities of Championship football, which balance this up.

The money written off by the late-great Geoffrey Watling was long-term debt and WAS NOT available for spending on a one-off basis.

I hope this helps clear some things up, but please feel free to attend our next roadshow where Neil can help explain this much better than I could ever do.

Golfwise - yeah, was taken to the cleaners by our living legend. But I had an off-day, and he was on fire. I'll be back...

James


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jamesglo @ 19-JUL-05 01:55 PM NEW Reply
Although the whole Board will appreciate you taking time to try to explain the Board's position, I am utterly and totally perplexed at our lack of financial muscle at this current time.

Neil Doncaster is on record that we are budgeting to break even this coming season and as the Club never budgets that optimistically that means we will budgeted to finish in the play-offs or just outside with no Cup runs. At the worst we will therefore be breaking even before the influx of money from Jonson, Helveg. Although you have said that all the 1.5 Million saved on wages and transfers fees will go back into the pot, surely we gain considerably when we take prudent and targetted risks eg Huckerby.
As a Second point where has all the money gone from last season's income and our parachute payments??? Ashton transfer is payable in at least 2 payments, ie 1.5 M per year tops. I believe we are getting 2M from land sales this year, doesn't that balance matters out with all parachute payments, therefore to be kept? If this is not the case where has all last year's money gone.

Can you please give some idea of our interim accounts for the last year, I assume that we made a profit of at least 5M.

Thanks for your time.

I understand


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Norwich City FC @ 19-JUL-05 02:04 PM NEW Reply
I don't think there's any suggestion we have a lack of financial muscle. As Nigel has said, we have "irons in the fire" but the transfer market is moving at a snail's pace at the moment, which is frustrating to every one.

However, in my previous posts I was simply trying to inject a degree of realism into things. As much as I would love us to have a bottomless pit of cash, we do not. We are not trying to hide anything here - that is a fact.

As for interim accounts, I don't have such detailed information to hand at present.

James


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Zac @ 19-JUL-05 02:14 PM NEW Reply
As I have said in previous posts, I think we'll see the real activity in the January window...

Zac Morgan

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symonbrum @ 19-JUL-05 02:43 PM NEW Reply
James, thank you for your considered output to this thread. I will go with the flow for now, (although with some reservations) but just to be clear, no one is suggesting we have a bottomless pot of gold, however I think jamesglo's point is very valid. When we take considered risks that by their very nature will involve spending some moulah, they pay off. Huckerby certainly did and although as I've said very often, he came too late to save us this time, Ashton certainly will too.

I take very much, what you say about the stagnant transfer market, but would like to think that if a real quality player became available in a position that we need (ie: not another keeper or an out and out striker) we could and would at least fight to get him and not specifically stick to 'Howard's kitty'.

If you stand still in sport, you actually go backwards and that is what is bothering us.

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Norwich City FC @ 19-JUL-05 02:50 PM NEW Reply
I hear what you're saying. I'd love nothing more than to be sitting here helping Joe organise a press conference or two for some new arrivals. Here's hoping!

James


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Lincoln Canary @ 19-JUL-05 02:54 PM NEW Reply
I think what's frustrating everyone (myself included) is that Leeds - a club who just a year ago were on the verge of being wound up - seem to have cash to spend and are spending it. Wolves also seem to have cash to throw around.


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Midland Canary @ 19-JUL-05 03:14 PM NEW Reply
Not to mention Leicester spent 1 million last season even though they just came out of adim!

P.s What happened to the money we get from Proton and lotus!?

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Norwich City FC @ 19-JUL-05 03:15 PM NEW Reply
Not so sure Leeds are spending the sort of cash people seem to think they are doing.

Leeds have released six players this summer already (Radebe, Joachim, Lennon, Johnson, Illic and Woods) and have bought six in return (Hulse, Bennett, Blake, Lewis, Stone and Harding). Of those players, how many would you have been pleased to have seen at City.

Hulse - a target a few seasons back - is a good striker at this level. But I think we'd all agree we're fairly well sorted in this position.

Blake - again, mainly a striker. Has played most of his career up front. May well be able to play midfield at a push, but we're back to the square pegs in round holes argument which followed Mattias Jonson round for most of last season.

Bennett - a goalkeeper. Say no more.

Stone - Great in his day, but ageing fast now. Almost in the Graham Stuart category, although would arguably be a decent squad player, on very high wages.

Harding and Lewis are also decent squad players, but no more than that.

But I'd have to say this doesn't represent the kind of Abramovic-esque spending spree many seem to think Leeds have gone on. I'd argue bringing in three very good Championship players for nothing, as has happened so far, is very good business. And that's before a penny is spent.

And let's not forget, we've still got Dean Ashton, Darren Huckerby, Robert Green and Damien Francis. If these three were to join the Club, we'd be very happy. As it is, we already have them as things stand.

James


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Norwich City FC @ 19-JUL-05 03:17 PM NEW Reply
By the way, if anyone wants to take a look at the transfer dealings of other clubs in the Championship so far, this link is quite helpful.

User Posted Link

James


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Re: Rumours from Holland....
norfolkngood @ 19-JUL-05 03:20 PM NEW Reply
Theres four players on your list,or do you know something we dont?


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owendearling @ 19-JUL-05 03:21 PM NEW Reply
Hopefully a typo.........


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symonbrum @ 19-JUL-05 03:21 PM NEW Reply
You are a busy little beaver today James.
Joe playing golf is he, or did the 6th Guiness finish him off last night?

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Norwich City FC @ 19-JUL-05 03:29 PM NEW Reply
I'll thank you to leave my beavering out of this.

James


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kadncfc @ 19-JUL-05 03:33 PM NEW Reply
I don't think anyone expects us to have a bottomless pit of cash but most probably would expect the manager to have some sort of budget other than money raised from sales. I think most of us are surpsised and disappointed that there doesn't appear to be a budget other than th cash recieved from sales. Palace have spent around 3 million on Macken and Mcanuff and they are in the same position as us, I seem to remember that 2 years ago we couldn't compete with West Brom in trying to sign Hulse. They had just been relegated so we should now have the financial edge on the other teams in our division. Why are we not competing with Wolves to try and sign Idiakez from Derby, quality player for them last season but would probably cost a million pounds which surely must be within our reach. The point is that there are players who may be avaliable but the good ones cost a bit more.


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Norwich City FC @ 19-JUL-05 03:37 PM NEW Reply
Nigel has a transfer budget apart from the money raised. Again, it's not something the Club can go into details over.

As for individual players, that's up to the management. If they feel they are the right players and available at the right prices then I'm sure they will go after them.

James


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kadncfc @ 19-JUL-05 03:42 PM NEW Reply
That's made me feel much better knowing that he has a budget on top of the money he has raised, never expected the club to give amounts for obvious reasons but it is reassuring to know there is some money avaliable.. Many thanks for taking the time to reply, heres hoping for some reinfocements soon.


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aj0506 @ 19-JUL-05 03:52 PM NEW Reply
oh well, we can continue to question this subject till the cows come home but the fact is we'll never be 100% clear on the financial situation the club is currently in and confusion will prevail. I think you have to ask yourself, if the club spending a million pounds this season is realistic? It has taken almost 10 years for us to smash our original ?1m pound transfer record, that alone tells you we don't make million pound signings a regular thing. Huckerby was an ambitious buy last season, which was partly helped by the share issue, and when you consider his eventual price tag didn't even scratch the seven figure mark you have to wonder how much money worthington is aloud to get his hands on for players

Posted By: meeky, Jul 19, 17:02:51